tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post6576166621589957146..comments2024-03-27T20:28:38.015-04:00Comments on Reasonable Christian: Cessationism Versus Continuationism: Why The Pentecostal/Charismatic Attack On Reformed and Protestant Theology FailsCharlie J. Rayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-24473175690076324102016-05-22T15:45:35.351-04:002016-05-22T15:45:35.351-04:00Jack, that's false. The Calvinist view is ces...Jack, that's false. The Calvinist view is cessationist and anyone who thinks that the gifts of the apostolic period continue today is out of step with Scripture and the Reformed Confessions. Secondly, man has no control over the supernatural miracles that God does by His divine decree. There is no need for miracles to confirm the Gospel message because we have the Bible.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-2890127874993682052016-05-21T18:51:14.943-04:002016-05-21T18:51:14.943-04:00My limited experience would indicate that most Cha...My limited experience would indicate that most Charismatic lean toward Armenian theology, but R T Kendall is a respected exception. I have read his comments on the 5 points. My opinion of Bill Johnson is that he also is more toward Calvinism than Armenian. Reformed doesn't equate with cessationism.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13820018284871642174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-91232318318752344092015-11-15T19:37:36.992-05:002015-11-15T19:37:36.992-05:00The Bible ALONE is the Word of God. If you want t...The Bible ALONE is the Word of God. If you want to follow new revelations and miracles, join up with the Roman Catholics. 2 Timothy 3:16-17Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-29332371953106185852015-11-15T11:21:45.587-05:002015-11-15T11:21:45.587-05:00"You can not throw out the Holy Spirit, with ..."You can not throw out the Holy Spirit, with the dirty Charismatic bathwater ". We need the real thing, instead of make believe, and that goes for both sides of the issue. There is no new testament A, and then B, 2-3 hundred years after, when the new testament scripture was canonized by an apostate church. Both sides are wrong, and we need to restore the, "STREET PREACHING, Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17663825146271388542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-6422912614602106472011-08-13T18:35:29.698-04:002011-08-13T18:35:29.698-04:00Thanks for your comments, Andy. It's hard to ...Thanks for your comments, Andy. It's hard to believe that this article was posted three years ago. Frankly, I'm weary of those who emphasis charity and evangelical unity where no such unity actually exists. The closest we've seen to a criticism of this is Mike Horton's book, Christless Christianity. Unfortunately, Horton and The White Horse Inn have been backpeddling because Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-26853185368540105882011-08-13T13:21:12.127-04:002011-08-13T13:21:12.127-04:00Great post Charlie, and great responses to the com...Great post Charlie, and great responses to the comments. <br /><br />I agree with you that ecumenical concerns among professing Reformed Christians are what drives this inability and/or refusal to refute Charismatic theology. Very few have seemed to master the art of polemics. <br /><br />Friendship overrules commitment to the truth for many of our Reformed leaders. Friendships between Reformed Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02908788730958708701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-18054458181946366632011-07-16T16:13:31.612-04:002011-07-16T16:13:31.612-04:00I agree, Maurice. In fact, for Pentecostals and C...I agree, Maurice. In fact, for Pentecostals and Charismatics the meaning of "sign, wonder, and miracle" becomes so common place as to demean the actual supernatural miracles of Jesus recorded in the New Testament and even the miracles recorded in the Old Testament. <br /><br />Furthermore, anecdotal evidence presented by Pentecostals is not infallible. Scripture is the inerrant and Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-90222735581585618502011-07-16T12:14:51.141-04:002011-07-16T12:14:51.141-04:00Charlie, to come back to one of your discussion po...Charlie, to come back to one of your discussion points on healings and the pentecostal, word faith and other continuationist positions the following:<br />1. Continuationists typically don't make a clear distinction between miracles (aka wonders) and providential acts by God. They will call the birth of a baby a miracle when in fact it is a providential act of God.<br />2. Miracles or wondersMaurice Hartinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15871002850229698347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-55132008645378977912011-07-04T11:46:07.955-04:002011-07-04T11:46:07.955-04:00That's true, Maurice. Basically Arminianism i...That's true, Maurice. Basically Arminianism is semi-pelagian like Rome. Man saves himself. It is essentially a different gospel. Calvinism IS the Gospel. Doctrine matters...<br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />CharlieCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-67375441141023530242011-07-04T11:28:57.507-04:002011-07-04T11:28:57.507-04:00Charlie, you and I would agree that arminianism ba...Charlie, you and I would agree that arminianism basically has man on the throne of his or her salvation in that he or she decides to believe in God and on that basis they are saved (aka decisional regeneration). My point of discussion with arminians would be if they believe in the Christ alone (one of the 5 sola's) how can fallen and lost man seek after God in unregenerate state, when the Maurice Hartinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15871002850229698347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-49893479851012944552011-07-03T12:32:19.363-04:002011-07-03T12:32:19.363-04:00Amen, Maurice.... BTW, I wrote the article, altho...Amen, Maurice.... BTW, I wrote the article, although I did quote extensively from Olson. Olson is an Arminian at best and an Open Theist at worst. I do not endorse his theology. I just thought that his observations on the Pentecostal issue were worth noting. <br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />CharlieCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-3160644557426006622011-07-03T11:18:24.612-04:002011-07-03T11:18:24.612-04:00Having grown in the faith over many many years to ...Having grown in the faith over many many years to the point that I could say that I am mature in the faith I have learned a couple of essentials; they are:<br />1. God is in full control and in charge of everything. He is the Creator and we are not. He is Sovereign and we are not. He is the author of salvation and we are not. <br />2. As a sinner I am at the mercy of God and can do nothing to Maurice Hartinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15871002850229698347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-77622719524776228352011-07-02T19:24:14.056-04:002011-07-02T19:24:14.056-04:00Thanks for your comment, Maurice. You're exac...Thanks for your comment, Maurice. You're exactly right. You hear a lot about miracles but finding one is like looking for a winning lottery ticket. It always seems to escape you when you need one. The real, down to earth daily life of people is one of trouble, difficulty, toil, and suffering. Anyone who tells you differently is most likely looking for a way to hustle you. <br /><br />I Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-39800071223192840772011-07-02T18:47:26.105-04:002011-07-02T18:47:26.105-04:00I must say that I agree with most of what the auth...I must say that I agree with most of what the author said here.<br /><br />The trouble with charismatics and pentecostals is that most in these camps don't understand the difference between God's gracious daily acts and God's miracles. The birth of a baby is not a miracle, but a providential act of God. Typically miracles are an exception to the norm, like walking on water.<br />And IMaurice Hartinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15871002850229698347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-28454202675306390642011-04-23T16:34:53.226-04:002011-04-23T16:34:53.226-04:00Ian, your ignorance of church history is appalling...Ian, your ignorance of church history is appalling. The Synod of Dort in 1618-19 condemned Arminianism as a semi-pelagian heresy that has more in common with Roman Catholicism than with the Protestant Reformation. I might add that modern Arminians think Roman Catholics are saved.<br /><br />Pentecostalism is Arminian and for good reason. Arminianism makes man the captain of his own soul while Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-49471132576068321532011-04-23T10:49:39.269-04:002011-04-23T10:49:39.269-04:00Charlie,
I was shocked to read your comments abou...Charlie,<br /><br />I was shocked to read your comments about Roger Olson. Arminianism is an accepted historic theological position based on scriptural exegesis. To say it is "not much better" than the institutional lies of pentecostalism is really out of order. Arminians do not go round conning people for personal gain.<br /><br />In addition, your questioning his faith ("...does Iannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-80706333994095797442011-04-20T21:08:03.905-04:002011-04-20T21:08:03.905-04:00I'm amused by how many healings seem to involv...I'm amused by how many healings seem to involve people with uneven leg length :-) Amazing what a little hip shift can do!<br /><br />From a personal perspective, my experience of "miraculous healings" has generally had a more damaging rather than encouraging impact on my faith. They just never seem that miraculous!<br /><br />It doesn't mean that I'm not open minded to God Pesky Britnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-28436288830626663832011-04-20T19:37:18.043-04:002011-04-20T19:37:18.043-04:00With all due respect to Roger Olson his Arminianis...With all due respect to Roger Olson his Arminianism is not much better than the Pentecostalism he rejects. Olson's arguments against the sovereignty of God at his blog have more in common with atheistic arguments against Christian theism than anything else.<br /><br />Simply because I quoted Olson here does not mean I believe Olson is a Christian or that Olson's views in other areas are Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-79480750338654230622011-04-20T06:55:15.797-04:002011-04-20T06:55:15.797-04:00An excellent post from 2008 that is still totally ...An excellent post from 2008 that is still totally relevant today. It's interesting you quote Roger Olson as I've recently been reading some of his other material (do you realise he's arminian?).<br /><br />I've been investigating pentecostals/charismatics and I've basically come to the same conclusions as you and Roger - it's all corrupt, starting from Azusa Street if not Iannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-40707920416826041472011-03-05T20:04:44.063-05:002011-03-05T20:04:44.063-05:00Society for Pentecostal Studies<a href="http://www.sps-usa.org/membership/home.htm" rel="nofollow">Society for Pentecostal Studies</a>Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-67635285549333273612011-03-05T20:03:12.897-05:002011-03-05T20:03:12.897-05:00No, I have not. I was duped at one time. I never...No, I have not. I was duped at one time. I never witnessed even one miracle and I've been to visit just about every healing evangelist out there.<br /><br />I've babbled gibberish before. I hardly call that supernatural, though.<br /><br />I have prayed for people and I have seen God answer prayers. But none of those answered prayers were "miracles". They were providential Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-66540336680889836962011-03-05T19:26:24.337-05:002011-03-05T19:26:24.337-05:00You've never been healed or prayed in tongues....You've never been healed or prayed in tongues...right?<br /><br />~Former CessationistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-2585910657365909722008-11-09T07:22:00.000-05:002008-11-09T07:22:00.000-05:00Nick, does "touch not my anointed" mean that Pente...Nick, does "touch not my anointed" mean that Pentecostal and Charismatic preachers are not to be tested by Scripture to see if what they are teaching and preaching is biblical? If so, then how are we to know the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet? <BR/><BR/>Your quote only proves to me that your experience trumps Scripture. It is very dangerous to place ecstatic experience Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-41265156687297708632008-11-09T00:56:00.000-05:002008-11-09T00:56:00.000-05:00"Touch not my anointed" remains good advice. Saul..."Touch not my anointed" remains good advice. Saul was disobedient, yet David did him no harm. "He who judges the law is not a doer of the law but a Judge (James 4:11)." Ponder this-- that Ananias and Sapphira fell down dead at the feet of a man that had one time been called Satan by Jesus for "thinking not as God thinks but as man thinks." <BR/><BR/>Isn't it time to come out of 16th century nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483787672921005628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-36481766905240053652008-09-10T20:07:00.000-04:002008-09-10T20:07:00.000-04:00My thesis is that there is a connection between th...My thesis is that there is a connection between the present “signs and wonders” or the “tongues” movement and Deut. 28:49. Read more here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.twoagespilgrims.com/doctrine/?p=358Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com