tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post7578507633417673401..comments2024-03-27T20:28:38.015-04:00Comments on Reasonable Christian: A Special Kind Of Arrogance | God's HammerCharlie J. Rayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-16711615948805310602013-05-23T07:27:25.580-04:002013-05-23T07:27:25.580-04:00Then it is not correct to say that God is the Son ...<i>Then it is not correct to say that God is the Son as well as the Father and Spirit. If "begotten" can't be predicated of God but can be predicated of the Son, then God is not the Son.</i> That's correct, the Father is not the Son and the Spirit is not the Son. But all three Persons are fully one God. God is defined as three persons who each think their own propositions. Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-64552004350795651242013-05-23T07:22:18.700-04:002013-05-23T07:22:18.700-04:00John 1:1 b could in fact be a reference to both th...John 1:1 b could in fact be a reference to both the Father and the Spirit since God is Tri-personal. God is not one person.<br /><br />The threefold nature of John 1:1 is an indication in that direction.<br /><br />At any rate, this discussion is over since your remarks prove that you are an irrationalist and most likely that nothing you "testify" to can be trusted.<br /><br />CharlieCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-24355853333871981212013-05-23T07:17:57.985-04:002013-05-23T07:17:57.985-04:00But the point is that the Father's thought &qu...<i>But the point is that the Father's thought "I am not the Son" means the same thing as "The Father is not the Son." Since they mean the same thing, they are the same proposition. But only the Father thinks the former. So thoughts aren't propositions. </i><br /><br />If thoughts are not logical, then nothing you just thought is a proposition and you have said nothing Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-29560764462603973552013-05-23T02:08:02.418-04:002013-05-23T02:08:02.418-04:00"Since all knowledge is propositional it foll..."Since all knowledge is propositional it follows that if the Father thinks or knows that He is not the Son or the Spirit, that those are propositions."<br /><br />But the point is that the Father's thought "I am not the Son" means the same thing as "The Father is not the Son." Since they mean the same thing, they are the same proposition. But only the Father Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883500968749756873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-66339972737562207932013-05-23T01:39:31.479-04:002013-05-23T01:39:31.479-04:00John 1:1
ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ...John 1:1 <br /> ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.<br /> <br /> <br /> The Word was with God, and the Word was God.<br /> <br /><br />Again, a subset proposition is envisioned here. The λόγος belongs to the larger category known as θεός. The force of this construction is most <br /><br />46<br /> <br />likely to emphasize the nature of the Word, not his identity.28 That is to say, Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-52468493521272431262013-05-23T01:27:57.951-04:002013-05-23T01:27:57.951-04:00You specifically denied that propositions and thou...You specifically denied that propositions and thoughts are essentially the same thing since all knowledge is propositional. Here we go with the equivocations again. <br /><br />As for the pay attention remark, being a smart mouth does not add anything logical to your argument.<br /><br />And as for Clark confusing the class of men with the class of God, that one is easily refuted. Obviously, Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-25350009544219468392013-05-23T01:09:32.244-04:002013-05-23T01:09:32.244-04:00I'm not the one who needs to re-read Clark. T...I'm not the one who needs to re-read Clark. That would be you. Since all knowledge is propositional it follows that if the Father thinks or knows that He is not the Son or the Spirit, that those are propositions. Otherwise, God must be very confused:) Furthermore, the pages you referenced refer the human nature, not to the Trinity.<br /><br />"The definition of Deity does not define Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-70745182043260712752013-05-23T00:54:47.066-04:002013-05-23T00:54:47.066-04:00You do realize that a mere claim that the class of...You do realize that a mere claim that the class of God differs from the class of man is not sufficient to show how, right? Clark compared them, after all:<br /><br />//Now, when we face the subject of the Trinity-the common unity in the three Persons-may we not say that the three Persons share or communicate the common characteristics of omnipotence, omniscience, and so forth, and so constitute Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883500968749756873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-77963131736094718142013-05-23T00:39:14.156-04:002013-05-23T00:39:14.156-04:00If the Father thinks He is the Son and the Spirit,...If the Father thinks He is the Son and the Spirit, then you have come up with modalism:) That's another heresy added to the list.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-73361641102062802222013-05-23T00:37:53.926-04:002013-05-23T00:37:53.926-04:00Your analogy fails since God is not a man. Three ...Your analogy fails since God is not a man. Three men are all human but the human nature is the same for all three men. Humans are in the class of human beings. God is in a class all His own. God is three in one sense and one in another. It is increasingly clear to me that Sean Gerety's assessment of your theology is correct. You're hopelessly confused--and irrational.<br /><br />Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-6807459516313038682013-05-22T13:06:03.204-04:002013-05-22T13:06:03.204-04:00Firstly, they all think the same propositions. Oth...Firstly, they all think the same propositions. Otherwise, they wouldn't be omniscient. Rather, they simply don't have the same thoughts (The Trinity, pgs. 129-130). It's quite funny that you make this elementary mistake and then tell me to reread Clark. <br /><br />"I" is an indexical which depends on the person who utters it. This doesn't have anything to do with Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883500968749756873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-44179534664972290792013-05-22T08:14:24.201-04:002013-05-22T08:14:24.201-04:00Just to clarify, when I said that what can be said...Just to clarify, when I said that what can be said about the two natures in Christ is in reference to common parlance only, not to theological and philosophical precision. When I say Jesus is God I mean that in reference to the general understanding of all Christians. I am not referring to the more complicated theological and logical precision outlined by Clark in The Incarnation. The human &Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-51588924655604794892013-05-22T08:09:03.250-04:002013-05-22T08:09:03.250-04:00Gordon H. Clark's book, The Trinity, clarifies...Gordon H. Clark's book, The Trinity, clarifies these issues well enough. Clark was not a Tritheist. The Athanasian Creed makes it clear that there are some propositions that the Father does not think. The Father does not think, "I am the Son," or "I am the Holy Spirit." On the other hand, all three Persons think all the divine propositions except those propositions Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-26848845936061983912013-05-22T04:32:03.384-04:002013-05-22T04:32:03.384-04:00I.e. tritheism. Looks like you need to bone up on ...I.e. tritheism. Looks like you need to bone up on the difference between classes and infima species.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883500968749756873noreply@blogger.com