tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post1408701801164358776..comments2024-03-27T20:28:38.015-04:00Comments on Reasonable Christian: Gordon H. Clark: Predestination and Regeneration Guarantee the Salvation of the ElectCharlie J. Rayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-28337965361136952952015-11-07T23:56:55.112-05:002015-11-07T23:56:55.112-05:00>>>>According to Calvinist logic, Adam...>>>>According to Calvinist logic, Adam was right to blame God for giving him a woman that made him sin. <<<<br /><br />Non sequitur. Since God held Adam accountable, Adam had no excuse. God told Adam to obey and Adam chose not to do so. Just because the rebellion of Adam was predetermined through secondary causes does not give Adam an excuse. Will worship is heresy. AdamCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-13429423656781291542015-11-07T23:53:47.570-05:002015-11-07T23:53:47.570-05:00I don't get why you say that Adam could not si...I don't get why you say that Adam could not sin. The Bible defines sin as any violation of God's moral law. Since Adam violated God's moral law, Adam sinned. Romans 5:12-21 NKJVCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-76240059949163887712015-11-07T23:52:03.582-05:002015-11-07T23:52:03.582-05:00It's your last post because you keep violating...It's your last post because you keep violating the law of contradiction. Irrationalism is the best you can do? The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning. (Isaiah 46:9-11 NKJV). And the Bible says that the reason God knows the future is because God planned and purposed the future just as it happens. (Isaiah 14:24). I'm so sorry that you don't believe the ScripturesCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-46572899857680505672015-11-06T00:14:40.335-05:002015-11-06T00:14:40.335-05:00YOU SAID: "He didn't? Then why test Adam ...YOU SAID: "He didn't? Then why test Adam in the first place? If God foreknew that Adam would fail the test and God knew that Adam would fail the test from all eternity, then it was never possible that Adam would pass the test. Basically, you are saying that God didn't really know Adam would fail the test."<br /><br />This will be my last post, since this is getting nowhere. ThisSean Buddehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858803536783192213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-20433555615936308892015-11-05T22:31:03.924-05:002015-11-05T22:31:03.924-05:00Finally, you keep accusing God of evil. This is t...Finally, you keep accusing God of evil. This is the same argument used by the atheists. So why don't you just admit that you don't believe in the God defined by Scripture?<br /><br />Whatever God does is just, including when He ordains evil. When David sinned with Bathsheba, God spoke through Nathan and said:<br /><br />11 "Thus says the LORD:`Behold, I will raise up adversity Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-43643564484657731172015-11-05T22:25:14.138-05:002015-11-05T22:25:14.138-05:00Sect. 9.—THIS, therefore, is also essentially nece...Sect. 9.—<b>THIS, therefore, is also essentially necessary and wholesome for Christians to know: That God foreknows nothing by contingency, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His immutable, eternal, and infallible will. By this thunderbolt, "Free-will" is thrown prostrate, and utterly dashed to pieces. Those, therefore, who would assert "Free-will,&Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-12121905536703037192015-11-05T22:19:49.351-05:002015-11-05T22:19:49.351-05:00Martin Luther and John Calvin both say that God ca...Martin Luther and John Calvin both say that God causes moral evil:<br /><br /><br />3. God is just toward the reprobate<br />eSo keeping silence, God can restrain his enemies. bBut lest we allow them to mock his holy name with impunity, out of his Word he supplies us with weapons against them. Accordingly, if anyone approaches us with such expressions as: “Why from the beginning did God Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-62760942154124632712015-11-05T22:16:10.474-05:002015-11-05T22:16:10.474-05:00>>>Nowhere does the Bible say that God wa...>>>Nowhere does the Bible say that God wanted evil to exist on earth. <<<<br /><br />If evil exists, then it exists because God created it. Evil cannot create itself. And in fact the Bible says specifically that God creates evil and it says so over and over again:<br /><br /> I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-82402907801301335072015-11-05T22:11:27.501-05:002015-11-05T22:11:27.501-05:00Socinian "Foreknowledge" More Logical th...<i> Socinian "Foreknowledge" More Logical than Arminian "Foreknowledge"<br />“In respect to this point (viz., Divine Foreknowledge, aku), the Socinian is more logical than the Arminian. Both agree that God does not decree those events which result from the action of the human will. Voluntary acts are not predetermined, but depend solely upon human will. Whether they shall Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-25000760064149204492015-11-05T22:06:33.583-05:002015-11-05T22:06:33.583-05:00Permission does not solve your dilemma. If God pe...Permission does not solve your dilemma. If God permits evil, then God wills to permit an evil He could have prevented. God is sovereign. Evil does not exist by "bare" permission but because God planned for evil to be in the world. Without evil there would be no need for redemption.<br /><br />The Westminster Confession makes this clear:<br /><br />4. The almighty power, Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-9730716851827672282015-11-05T22:01:54.576-05:002015-11-05T22:01:54.576-05:00>>>You don't seem to understand what ...>>>You don't seem to understand what 'totally perfect' means. It means that such a perfect man cannot choose to do an imperfect act no matter what is presented to him. Perfection cannot make an imperfect choice.<<<<br /><br />The Bible says that God did not create Adam as unrighteous or imperfect. Yet Adam sinned. So you have contradicted yourself once again. The Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-34934938407643326092015-11-05T21:59:00.724-05:002015-11-05T21:59:00.724-05:00>>>God put the tree in the garden to test...>>>God put the tree in the garden to test Adam. He didn't do so to make him sin. <<<<br /><br />He didn't? Then why test Adam in the first place? If God foreknew that Adam would fail the test and God knew that Adam would fail the test from all eternity, then it was never possible that Adam would pass the test. Basically, you are saying that God didn't really know Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-17228219002091250352015-11-05T14:37:14.726-05:002015-11-05T14:37:14.726-05:00YOU SAID: "But I noticed you cannot answer a ...YOU SAID: "But I noticed you cannot answer a very simple question. If God foreknows that you will go to church next Sunday, is it possible that you won't go to church next Sunday?"<br /><br />God put the tree in the garden to test Adam. He didn't do so to make him sin. That would make God evil. Satan is the only one who tried to make man sin, not God. When you say that God set Sean Buddehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858803536783192213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-66932252204016553642015-11-05T00:30:53.376-05:002015-11-05T00:30:53.376-05:00>>>But if Adam had a will enslaved to onl...>>>But if Adam had a will enslaved to only do good, and was totally perfect, and therefore, beyond God's reproach, he couldn't have willed to do otherwise. The same goes for Lucifer. So, where did their wrong decisions come from? You would have to say that God willed them to sin, and therefore, God is the one responsible for Lucifer's and a third of the angels' fall, and Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-16878440966796593892015-11-05T00:22:05.668-05:002015-11-05T00:22:05.668-05:00God caused Abimelech not to have sex with Abraham&...God caused Abimelech not to have sex with Abraham's wife, Sarah:<br /><br /> 2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.<br /> 3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.<br /> 4 But Abimelech had not come near Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-58232541833439356322015-11-05T00:19:05.303-05:002015-11-05T00:19:05.303-05:00>>>There it is...your true belief comes o...>>>There it is...your true belief comes out. You believe that God put evil in Lucifer's heart so that he would sin. There's no other conclusion that you could come to since evil did not exist in heaven and God is not evil. So, how did Lucifer choose to rebel against God?<<<<br /><br />I have never denied that God caused Satan to rebel with 1/3 of the angels. I affirmed Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-36509163446344329052015-11-05T00:12:08.236-05:002015-11-05T00:12:08.236-05:00I beg to differ. It is the Arminian who rejects t...I beg to differ. It is the Arminian who rejects the Scriptures. The Bible teaches the doctrine of predestination on just about every page. And worse, it is the Arminian who is the rationalist. That is because rather than just accepting the Bible texts at face value, the Arminian must explain them away to make the texts fit with their presupposition that God would be unjust if He does not fitCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-51181105670360517772015-11-03T13:51:47.271-05:002015-11-03T13:51:47.271-05:00The description of your blog at Networked Blogs re...The description of your blog at Networked Blogs reads...<br /><br />"The purpose of Reasonable Christian is to defend the authority of Holy Scripture against Anglo-Catholicism, Arminianism, and Semi-Pelagianism. Apologetics, biblical exegesis, and a solid biblical and dogmatic theology are the focus of the articles and posts."<br /><br />And yet your replies to my comments have been Sean Buddehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858803536783192213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-12415276074712445682015-11-02T00:26:04.182-05:002015-11-02T00:26:04.182-05:00YOU SAID: "God is omnipotent and omniscient. ...YOU SAID: "God is omnipotent and omniscient. He knows all the propositions there are to be known. He is more than able to preserve two thirds of the angels from falling and to cause Satan and the other one third of the angels to fall. Is there anything that is outside of God's sovereignty? No."<br /><br />There it is...your true belief comes out. You believe that God put evil in Sean Buddehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858803536783192213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-18885985483678053882015-11-01T20:45:55.558-05:002015-11-01T20:45:55.558-05:00The cross happened because God foreordained that J...The cross happened because God foreordained that Judas Iscariot would betray Jesus, that Pontius Pilate and Herod would put Jesus on trial and that false witnesses would testify against Jesus. It was predetermined from all eternity that Pilate would crucify Jesus. And without the fall the decree of redemption would not have been necessary in the first place. God decreed the fall and the Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-3625476918270635582015-11-01T20:43:16.627-05:002015-11-01T20:43:16.627-05:00>>> If freedom of choice doesn't exis...>>> If freedom of choice doesn't exist, then you have no one other than God to blame for the fall of Lucifer and Adam. <<<<br /><br />Again, free moral agency is not the same thing as libertarian free will. Men have a volition. Angels have volition. But their choices being made freely by the creature are all predetermined by God without God's violating their wills.<brCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-86350940761709728982015-11-01T20:35:34.993-05:002015-11-01T20:35:34.993-05:00>>>God is not limited if He permits freed...>>>God is not limited if He permits freedom of choice.<<<<<br /><br />God is not limited if He permits choices that He foreknows and predetermines. But the fact that He permits evil knowing that the choices He permits will result in evil means that God is the ultimate cause of evil. That's because God does not permit evil in heaven. You keep ignoring this obvious fact:Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-4769288877892581282015-11-01T20:28:54.183-05:002015-11-01T20:28:54.183-05:00>>>Calvinism makes Lucifer a victim of Go...>>>Calvinism makes Lucifer a victim of God's sovereignty rather than being responsible for his own fall. <<<<<br /><br />Lucifer has no rights before God. God does what He pleases with His creatures. That includes both men and angels. God does not owe Satan anything and He certainly does not owe any man salvation.<br /><br /><br />Satan was held accountable by God. SoCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-69414716221552704032015-11-01T20:25:09.057-05:002015-11-01T20:25:09.057-05:00>>>then Calvinism dictates that both coul...>>>then Calvinism dictates that both could not possibly choose to disobey God.<<<<<br /><br />This a huge non sequitur since the Bible says that God foreordains all that comes to pass. God dictates the end from the beginning, including your irrationalism. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God of their own will and volition because they were free moral agents. Their choices Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-66501320472215431152015-11-01T20:22:20.161-05:002015-11-01T20:22:20.161-05:00>>>If both were created perfect without f...>>>If both were created perfect without freedom of will to choose, <<< I refer you again to the Westminster Confession. Obviously man was created with a will or volition and does make choices as a free moral agent. But this is not the same thing as libertarian free will. Before the fall Adam had a will that was free from sin. After the fall Adam was a slave to sin. BeforeCharlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.com