tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post1804018083549407572..comments2024-03-27T20:28:38.015-04:00Comments on Reasonable Christian: Re: 'Common Grace'.Charlie J. Rayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-63598595059123497662012-09-26T14:28:33.319-04:002012-09-26T14:28:33.319-04:00Theology is not neutral. Being educated in theolo...Theology is not neutral. Being educated in theology does not equal truth. But certainly anti-intellectualism is not becoming of a Reformed view of Scripture. God calls us to grow in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and He says that "truth" sanctifies us. (2 Peter 3:18; John 17:17). <br /><br />Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-91674324006517854672012-09-26T14:24:28.476-04:002012-09-26T14:24:28.476-04:00" And no, there's no rule that says grace..." And no, there's no rule that says grace cannot be both particular and general," If God's Word is contradictory and irrational, you might as well join up with the liberals and the neo-orthodox. The Bible is rational and logical. AND the Westminster Confession affirms that:<br /><br />WCF, Chapter 1. Of Holy Scripture<br /><br />6. The whole counsel of God, concerning all Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-57424574898070677382012-09-26T14:21:01.813-04:002012-09-26T14:21:01.813-04:00Hudson, since "common grace" is not once...Hudson, since "common grace" is not once mentioned in any Reformed standard except in the negative sense in the rejection of errors in the Canons of Dort, the weasel word here is "common grace." The Westminster Confession has a whole chapter on providence not one word about "common grace." Providence also occurs in the Three Forms of Unity. Common grace is a Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-64458224485060000582012-09-26T12:38:45.875-04:002012-09-26T12:38:45.875-04:00Charlie, I did NOT ask you if Psalm 145 proves &qu...Charlie, I did NOT ask you if Psalm 145 proves "common grace". I said "Psalm 145:13- Looks like grace to me, even if at the end God destroys those whom he hates." I object to the word "providence" in this context, which is just a weasel word whose purpose is to not say 'grace'. And no, there's no rule that says grace cannot be both particular and Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511526445868840330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-86231808299405746232012-09-26T12:27:42.544-04:002012-09-26T12:27:42.544-04:00When I read theology books about "general pro...When I read theology books about "general providence", it is described more or less as stuff that God does for all his creatures which has no moral value (good or evil). These theological geniuses suppose God can't figure out how to give good stuff (grace) to only the Elect, so He gives it to both and calls it mere "providence". This is nonsense. Everything that God Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511526445868840330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-72340465144158880132012-09-26T12:18:21.961-04:002012-09-26T12:18:21.961-04:00Besides, I didn't say "you" confused...Besides, I didn't say "you" confused anything. I said that the "view" that general providence is "common grace" conflates Calvinism with Arminianism and is irrational. The law of contradiction asserts that A and non-A cannot both be true. In other words, "grace" in the Bible is always particular and not general or common. In the same way, the cross Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-51599868545408421442012-09-26T12:15:06.579-04:002012-09-26T12:15:06.579-04:00Hudson, you asked if Psalm 145:13 proves "com...Hudson, you asked if Psalm 145:13 proves "common grace". It does not. Calvin never refers to general providence as "common grace". The fact is common grace is an Arminian doctrine. This is why I do not and cannot attend any so-called "Reformed" church that teaches Arminian doctrine while pretending to be Reformed. This sort of irrationalism leads straight to Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-45192712692683510532012-09-26T12:06:57.612-04:002012-09-26T12:06:57.612-04:00Charlie. I'm not confusing anything, and you ...Charlie. I'm not confusing anything, and you keep raising new issues and bringing in new texts, presumably to avoid answering my question. Please put away all your commentaries and theology books and deal with Psalm 145. Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511526445868840330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-30461572330180689602012-09-26T11:55:21.643-04:002012-09-26T11:55:21.643-04:00Hudson, to confuse the "general call" of...Hudson, to confuse the "general call" of God with the "effectual call" of God is to conflate the Reformed view with Arminianism or semi-pelagianism.<br /><br />Likewise, to confuse "general providence" with "common grace" is to conflate the Calvinist doctrines of absoute predestination and general providence with the Arminian doctrine of prevenient grace Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-75319532545907032152012-09-26T11:46:52.292-04:002012-09-26T11:46:52.292-04:00In other words, Calvin's comments on Psalm 143...In other words, Calvin's comments on Psalm 143 are to interpreted in light of what he says in regards to God's secret and revealed will.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-60246924804883740362012-09-26T11:46:05.999-04:002012-09-26T11:46:05.999-04:00See: Calvin on Common GraceSee: <a href="http://reasonablechristian.blogspot.com/2012/09/john-calvin-on-common-grace-two-wills.html" rel="nofollow">Calvin on Common Grace</a>Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-39904166328420671392012-09-26T11:31:53.772-04:002012-09-26T11:31:53.772-04:00Charlie. I didn't ask for your view on Kuyper...Charlie. I didn't ask for your view on Kuyper or any other person that has expounded something like Kuyper's view. I agree with you completely on that matter. But rather I asked for an explanation of Psalm 145. It states what we might call 'common grace', even if it is nothing like the Kuyperian version. <br /><br />I see both common grace and common stumbling blocks, both ofHudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511526445868840330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-73701469786463768072012-09-26T10:48:00.850-04:002012-09-26T10:48:00.850-04:00I should also point out that the so-called doctrin...I should also point out that the so-called doctrine of "common grace" has been used to elevate general or natural revelation to the same level as Scripture or above Scripture. That can be seen in Calvin College and Calvin Seminary where theistic evolution and tolerance for the view that homosexuals are excused for their same sex thoughts because they are "born" with that Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-50689684225354902812012-09-26T09:59:55.792-04:002012-09-26T09:59:55.792-04:00As you say, "God's goodness only serves t...As you say, "God's goodness only serves to drive them further from God." This is precisely what Psalm 145 says, or so it seems to me. It is also what Article 17 says, that the goodness of God is evident to all, but while it is a blessing to the Elect, it is a curse to those not Elect. <br /><br />Perhaps you are suggesting that God's goodness can sometimes be of something Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511526445868840330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-11334256257986453622012-09-25T23:25:58.342-04:002012-09-25T23:25:58.342-04:00Hudson, general providence can only work for the g...Hudson, general providence can only work for the good of God's elect. For the reprobate, as Calvin says, God's goodness only serves to drive them further from God. So providence is not a grace to the reprobate but only a curse.<br /><br />Article 17 says the same thing. Those who refuse to accept God are under the sentence of God's decree and they are driven to further desperation.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-75058019557673974602012-09-25T17:58:27.040-04:002012-09-25T17:58:27.040-04:00Charlie, what do you say to Psalm 145:13- Looks l...Charlie, what do you say to Psalm 145:13- Looks like grace to me, even if at the end God destroys those whom he hates. <br /><br />"Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations. The Lord upholdeth all that fall, and raiseth up all those that be bowed down. The eyes of all wait upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season. Thou Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05511526445868840330noreply@blogger.com