tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post7579828113824589767..comments2024-03-27T20:28:38.015-04:00Comments on Reasonable Christian: Dr. R. Scott Clark Endorses "Natural Law": Natural Law, the Two Kingdoms, and Homosexual Marriage | The HeidelblogCharlie J. Rayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-61381166885114259802013-02-08T20:19:06.416-05:002013-02-08T20:19:06.416-05:00>>>The purpose of general revelation is n...>>>The purpose of general revelation is not to convict of sin.<<<< Agreed. So we're supposed to shut up and let society go to hell because the church has no business preaching the moral law, as it is revealed in Scripture, in the public arena. Gotcha.<br /><br />Funny, but Jesus was crucified because he refused to obey the governing authorities in the Sanhedrin and in Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-3298724243627977622013-02-08T20:12:07.651-05:002013-02-08T20:12:07.651-05:00Trying to "shame" someone is not a logic...Trying to "shame" someone is not a logical argument. It's ad hominem. Unless your ad hominem refutes the contention that the term "natural law" is a complete misuse of the Westminster Confession then you haven't said anything meaningful.<br /><br />Even if the moral law could be revealed in general revelation, it would not cause societies to reform themselves since Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-54573521498542089352013-02-08T19:21:33.858-05:002013-02-08T19:21:33.858-05:00Like I said before, not understanding your opponen...Like I said before, not understanding your opponents argument you deride their character and cast aspersions. Shameless...Jack Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18281378425270530573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-5772480692708441122013-02-08T18:43:24.462-05:002013-02-08T18:43:24.462-05:00Jack, here in the south being plain spoken is take...Jack, here in the south being plain spoken is taken as a sign of honesty and being duplicitous and waffling and indirect is seen as a sign of deception. If these men were honest they wouldn't be riding the fence and giving answers that are ambigous.<br /><br />Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-87047694455752836162013-02-08T18:34:48.884-05:002013-02-08T18:34:48.884-05:00The prooftexts for Question 93 do not mention natu...The prooftexts for Question 93 do not mention natural law yet the moral law is binding on all mankind. The prooftexts are all referring to the revealed law, not a law derived from human reason.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-63839188043526370512013-02-08T14:45:56.014-05:002013-02-08T14:45:56.014-05:00Charlie wrote: "So you disagree with the doct...Charlie wrote: "So you disagree with the doctrine of total depravity/inability and the noetic effects of sin? Surely Paul meant that general revelation in creation is insufficient to convict men of their lostness OR to reform societies--as R.S. Scott suggests."<br /><br />Of course not! And nothing I wrote said that. In fact I affirm the opposite. The purpose of general revelation isJack Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18281378425270530573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-80586786384435429052013-02-08T13:30:56.762-05:002013-02-08T13:30:56.762-05:00Are we to read into Scripture laws that aren't...Are we to read into Scripture laws that aren't there? "Don't preach against government officials or nations." It might cause you to lose your tax exempt status or bring persecution on your church. If the government forbids preaching against homosexuality will you obey the government or God?Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-11632105282986566842013-02-08T13:28:33.159-05:002013-02-08T13:28:33.159-05:00Also, the command to not eat of the tree in the ga...Also, the command to not eat of the tree in the garden was special revelation, not written in the heart. The fact that man is made in God's moral and rational image (Genesis 1:26-27; John 1:1-3) does not negate the doctrine of total depravity (Genesis 6:5; Romans 1:18-21; 3:20, 23; 5:12-21; 8:7).Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-36605304289819762302013-02-08T13:25:03.911-05:002013-02-08T13:25:03.911-05:00Romans 2:15 is the only verse that remotely comes ...Romans 2:15 is the only verse that remotely comes close to saying that the law of God is written in the minds of men. And the context there is that the Gentiles sometimes obey God's moral law better than the Jews. But both are under sin. Romans 3:9-23Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-60146166513469354502013-02-08T13:10:07.625-05:002013-02-08T13:10:07.625-05:00Exalting general revelation above special revelati...Exalting general revelation above special revelation always results in liberalism.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-71565585002989141122013-02-08T13:09:33.565-05:002013-02-08T13:09:33.565-05:00So saying that the moral law is part of the image ...So saying that the moral law is part of the image and likeness in creation does NOT establish common grace as a means of keeping societies pure or moral. It only leaves them without excuse. Natural law is a papist doctrine. The natural reason of man is darkened by sin, according to Paul. Romans 1:18-25Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-21650438364997479392013-02-08T13:08:10.779-05:002013-02-08T13:08:10.779-05:00Romans 2:14 does not say that the Gentiles keep Go...Romans 2:14 does not say that the Gentiles keep God's law consistently. They only show that they sometimes keep the law. But Paul concludes that ALL are under sin, Jew and Gentile alike:<br /><br /> For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-3877392571963670712013-02-08T13:05:26.765-05:002013-02-08T13:05:26.765-05:00Ironically, the 2K view leads to endorsing evil, a...Ironically, the 2K view leads to endorsing evil, as Lee Irons and Misty Irons show. They are not alone, apparently.Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-78845059691215947232013-02-08T13:04:36.982-05:002013-02-08T13:04:36.982-05:00So you disagree with the doctrine of total depravi...So you disagree with the doctrine of total depravity/inability and the noetic effects of sin? Surely Paul meant that general revelation in creation is insufficient to convict men of their lostness OR to reform societies--as R.S. Scott suggests.<br /><br /><br /> For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-7225169274379349142013-02-08T13:00:04.669-05:002013-02-08T13:00:04.669-05:00Charlie, if special revelation tells us that the m...Charlie, if special revelation tells us that the moral law was written in the minds of Adam and Eve and their posterity, then the moral law is known to every man via creation, i.e. general revelation! God did it. Special revelation didn't do it. Special revelation just tells us that God did it and why he did it. Two things that man can't know from the knowledge of the moral law Jack Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18281378425270530573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-75845097883776271332013-02-08T12:14:41.194-05:002013-02-08T12:14:41.194-05:00Where is "natural law" mentioned? I don...Where is "natural law" mentioned? I don't see it? Also, the only way we have of knowing the moral law was written in the minds of Adam and Eve is by special revelation in Scripture. There is no other way to know this. <br /><br />Secondly, since the divine image and likeness has been totally corrupted, how does this translate into "trust the world and ungodly leaders to Charlie J. Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18185331029930925967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15388492.post-3461796733330123592013-02-07T19:10:48.525-05:002013-02-07T19:10:48.525-05:00Charlie: But where, pray tell, is this in Scriptu...Charlie: <i>But where, pray tell, is this in Scripture or the Reformed confessions? </i><br /><br />As to confessions, just a few...<br /><br />WCF 4:2 - "After God had made all other creatures, he created man, male and female, with reasonable and immortal souls, endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after his own image; <i>having the law of God written in their hearts</iJack Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18281378425270530573noreply@blogger.com