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Martyred for the Gospel

Martyred for the Gospel
The burning of Tharchbishop of Cant. D. Tho. Cranmer in the town dich at Oxford, with his hand first thrust into the fyre, wherwith he subscribed before. [Click on the picture to see Cranmer's last words.]

Collect of the Day

The Fifth Sunday after the Epiphany.
The Collect.

O LORD, we bessech thee to keep thy Church and household continually in thy true religion; that they who do lean only upon the hope of thy heavenly grace may evermore be defended by thy mighty power; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Daily Bible Verse

Saturday, April 28, 2007

The Transgender Myth

(Note: Click here to read, "I'm a Girl -- Understanding Transgendered Children," on ABC's website).


Last night on ABC's 20/20 Barbara Walters gave the classic propaganda push for the normalization of a condition that is still considered a psychological disorder in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, Text Revision or DSM-IV-TR. The sad part of this whole debate is that there is practically no scientific proof to support the position taken by Barbara Walters and other popularizers of postmodern mythology, such as homosexuality being a genetic and inborn condition and that the transgender condition is somehow biologically preconditioned by hormonal imbalances.

The real problem is that neither homosexuality nor the transgender condition can be proved from the research available. The best they can do is find some "suggested" links but apparently this research is biased since the assumption is made ahead of time. Amazingly, even the biased science cannot give solid proof for the a priori condition.

This leaves us to assume the obvious. The causes for homosexual and transgender disorders are psychologically induced, which basically goes back to the old nature versus nurture debate. Those of us who have read the material know that most cases of homosexuality and transgender are connected to nurture where a person is converted from heterosexuality to homosexuality or the transgender condition either by self-discovery or by encouragement from a confused and psychologically disordered parent.

Last night's show on 20/20 had at least one clear case where a mother deliberately manipulated harmless childhood role-playing and brainwashed her son into thinking he was a girl trapped in a boy's body. The fact that this goes all the way back to his two to three-year-old childhood and that his mother encouraged and hid the transition from his father for many years shows clearly that the mother deliberately and without shame shaped and molded her son into thinking he was a girl. She even admitted taking him out to buy dresses and otherwise encouraging him to become a girl mentally. There is no way that a child of five or six years of age can understand anything at all about this whole debate about transgender. It is so obvious that the child was influenced by a mother who wanted him to be a girl, rather than a boy who wanted to be a girl. I noted right away that the mother appeared to be of the domineering and overbearing type and that the father himself was "effeminate." Also, telling was the fact that the father's discovery of the manipulations by the mother almost caused them to divorce.

The real irony of this sort of propaganda is that reporters like Barbara Walters will say that religion is wrong because it is not supported by science. Yet when it comes to pushing a political agenda for all sorts of social and psychological aberrations like homosexuality and the transgender condition, true scientific evidence and empirical proofs seem to be completely unnecessary. Science was barely even mentioned in the program except as an aside. Moreover, postmodernism taken to the extreme is an anti-intellectual movement which picks and chooses what science it will accept and what science it will reject.

Even more ironically, the same people pushing the evolutionary theories based on natural selection and random mutations ignore the fact that if homosexuality and transgender is genetically propagated, the burden of proof lies with them to show how this fits with natural selection and evolutionary theory? How does it profit a species to pass on dead-end genes which cannot reproduce because homosexuals don't generally have children? I suppose we could allow for lesbians who get artificially inseminated but that still would not explain the vast majority of cases where homosexuals and transgenders come from otherwise normal bloodlines of heterosexual families.

Basically, a person who becomes a homosexual or a transgendered individual undergoes a psychological conversion process that is essentially in the mind, not something that is genetically or biologically predetermined. On the other hand, to say that a person is biologically predetermined would in fact go against the philosophical principle of free will and would instead support the idea that people are basically slaves to their environment and their natural composition. I suppose in that sense the proponents of homosexuality and transgenderization are in line with evolutionary thinking, which basically says that humans are just another animal that randomly evolved into a more intelligent and intellectually superior species. The assumption is there no God and that we are just a huge cosmic accident or "miracle."

Moreover, this sort of thinking has gone to the absurd level. A transgendered person is the opposite sex trapped in a biological body of sex they were born with. But such a person could have a homosexual orientation, a heterosexual orientation, or a bisexual orientation. Wait a minute, though. Are we referring to the biological sex of the person or the preferred gender of the individual? If we are referring to the biological sex of the person, if they like people of the same biological sex, they are technically "homosexual." But if we buy into the whole transgender myth that they are really the gender they want to be but are trapped in the wrong body, they would then be "heterosexual." This is totally confusing and silly, to be honest. A boy who wants to be a girl would be both a homosexual and a heterosexual, depending on which view you took. Or is he a bisexual or all three at once?

As you can see, modern political correctness has basically become fragmented, anti-intellectual, irrational, and schizophrenic. I could not believe that Barbara Walters could do this program with a straight face. The anti-scientific basis for the whole thing is just astounding to me, especially since they reject conservative Christianity supposedly on the basis of "science." Give me a break!

Christianity is really the basis for solid science and a consistent, coherent, and congruent worldview in the first place. Reason taken out of the context of a Christian worldview leads to all sorts of irrational conclusions including homosexuality and transgenderality. It is time for Christians to step to the plate and do the hard work of intellectual investigation of the issues and to prove the Christian worldview to be the superior and rationally acceptable alternative to the postmodern absurdities we see in the modern media, particularly the deranged and detrimental programming pushed by ABC and Barbara Walters last night.

This shameless piece of propaganda should be rejected for what it essentially is: anti-intellectualism at its worst. It is time for thinking individuals to wake up and stand against this sort of irrational political correctness taken to the extreme. The parents of this little boy should be ashamed of themselves for destroying his life and ABC and Barbara Walters should be ashamed for promoting the destruction of the future of innocent children who have been brainwashed to promote a political agenda.

May God have mercy!


Charlie

Post script: Isn't it amazing that a two-year-old has the vocabulary of an adult:

When Jazz was two, he asked his mother a question that left her numb and frozen. "[He] said, 'Mommy, when's the good fairy going to come with her magic wand and change, you know, my genitalia?" according to Renee.

This is obviously not a case of "nature" but one of "nurture" where a psychologically disordered mother has chosen to corrupt her son in her desire to have a daughter. The fact that Barbara Walters does not question the mother on this shows her bias and her lack of understanding of the scientific method. Never be afraid to question anything if you are truly a scientist. I question this entire ABC episode and article. It is sheer propaganda, not science. [Post script added 1/25/2009]

Addendum:  Blame Who?

113 comments:

Charlie J. Ray said...

I do not believe that "testimonies" to what you have subjectively experienced can over-ride the final authority of Holy Scripture. To place human psychology or reason or experience above God's Word is idolatry.

You may be having psychological problems but the solution is not surgery or listening to the opinions of pagan psychologists. The solution is to accept the fact that you are a man and continue to ask God to help you come to terms with your God given gender. God assigned your gender at birth.

Charlie

Charlie J. Ray said...

Science has yet to empirically prove a "subjective" and "psychological" experience is somehow genetically or biologically induced when in fact the objective fact stands: psychologically disordered men and women have the genes, biology, physical nature, and genitalia of the sex God assigned them at birth. If there is mental disorder, the burden of proof lies with those making assumptions to prove that there is a physical cause for the mental disorder. This has yet to be proved.

Charlie J. Ray said...

A.D. I feel the need to correct your delusional thinking. A.D. needs another D. Attention Deficit Disorder. The fact that you can't see that gender is biological and physical only proves how far you're willing to go to justify mutilating your body because of your dysfunctional thinking. Running propaganda campaigns with liberal progressives who have an anti-scientific bias and an anti-intellectual emphasis on passion rather than reason only leads to superstition and ignorance. Such compromise of the truth will only lead to the ultimate breakdown of science and society as we know it. A return to the dark ages is not the answer to mental illness.

Charlie

Charlie J. Ray said...

Rhen, I thank you for conceding that the transgender dysphoria is essentially a subjective, existential "experience" which cannot be scientifically proven.

In other words, there is no biological, physiological, or genetic evidence which substantiates the assertion that people are "born" that way.

Regarding the moral, ethical, and theological opposition to gay, lesbian, transgender issues, I would say that you have no authority to judge whether or not Christianity is true. We happen to believe that the Bible is God's revelation to mankind and is the only infallible rule for faith and practice. That does not mean we do not allow that others have a legal right to be wrong on moral issues.

Also, God can justly damn all mankind so the idea that people around the world reject Christ or practice immorality only proves that God is just, good, and holy and that mankind in general is in rebellion against God.

Only a divine intervention can change individual rebels into regenerate Christians. Ye must be born again. (John 3:3-8).

Sincerely yours,

Charlie

Charlie J. Ray said...

I refuse to call men by female names. Whoever you are, the fact that you have the sinful rebellion to mutilate your body and destroy God's creation proves that you have put yourself in the place of God. God alone determines your very life and He can cut you off at any moment and be totally just in doing so. But you are not satisfied with the body God gave you and have decided against all reason that mutilation is the answer to your sinful and confused thinking.

I deserve hell and so does everyone else. I don't hate homosexuals, lesbians or transgendered people. I pity them because they are blind to their own arrogance and their true status as sinners in the hands of an angry God.

The world wishes to put God in the hands of angry sinners. But the Bible over and over declares that God is the Creator and we are corrupt and rebellious creatures. God has every right to cut everyone of us off and send us all straight to hell. Yes, that includes me.

Seeing you will not see and hearing you will not hear. The Author of the Book has spoken once for all in the Book and His words condemn you as rebels. If I were you I would be seeking peace with God rather than trying to spread your deceptions through propaganda and twisting God's Word to your own destruction.

May God grant you the grace to believe,

Charlie

Charlie J. Ray said...

There are no "seekers". All have gone astray and there is no one who seeks God.

...as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. (Romans 3:10-11 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. (Romans 1:18-25 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. (2 Peter 3:15-17 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

As the godly consideration of Predestination and our Election in Christ is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons and such as feeling in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh and their earthly members and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: so for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the devil doth thrust them either into desperation or into wretchlessness of most unclean living no less perilous than desperation.

Article XVIII Of Predestination and Election

Charlie J. Ray said...

Bubba, your implied remark that homosexuality is ok as long as there is no idolatry is utterly ridiculous. The Law of Moses clearly condemned all homosexual activity as an abomination.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22 ESV)
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

You shall not lie
Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Gen 19:5 And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."
Jdg 19:22 As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, worthless fellows, surrounded the house, beating on the door. And they said to the old man, the master of the house, "Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him."
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

Charlie J. Ray said...

The Scripture that says judge not refers to those who are unjustly condemning others (Matthew 7:1-6; Luke 6:35-38). In particular, Luke is referring to social justice issues and not to one's standing before God. Remember the Decalogue or Ten Commandments is divided into two tables. The first table is directed to our relationship with God and the second table is directed to our relationship with our neighbor.

Moreover, the moral law is anything in Scripture that speaks to what we should do or what we should not do. In other words, the Law of God is whatever Scripture commands negatively or positively. The purpose of the Law is primarily to reveal that we are lost and undone sinners with no standing before God whatsoever:

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20 ESV)
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." (Romans 7:7 ESV)
For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. (Romans 4:15 ESV)
for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. (Romans 5:13 ESV)
Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, (Romans 5:20 ESV)


And the clincher is:

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23 ESV)
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23 ESV)


Keeping the law can save no one since God requires sinless perfection. Unless you can match the sinlessness of Jesus Christ from birth, you deserve hell and the wages of sin is death.

So the righteousness of Christ is imputed to believers. (Romans 4:4-5). The trouble with your view is you wish to take the antinomian view that whatever you want to do is ok and that grace is a license to sin. That would mean that Christianity is basically a religion that has no ethics, no morals, and no sanctification. Clearly we have no license to live a lawless life. God requires Christians to live according to His moral law--not as a means of being in right standing with God--but as the proof that we are in fact genuinely regenerated Christians. We are justified by faith alone and apart from good works. But those who live lawlessly prove they have no faith whatsoever:

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. (1 Timothy 1:8-11 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

I am not perfect nor am I sinless. I sin in thought, word and deed and in things I leave undone:

(1 John 1:8-10)
A general Confession to be said of the whole Congregation after the Minister, all kneeling.
ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father; We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep. We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts. We have offended against thy holy laws. We have left undone those things which we ought to have done; And we have done those things which we ought not to have done; And there is no health in us. But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us, miserable offenders. Spare thou them, O God, who confess their faults. Restore thou those who are penitent; According to thy promises declared unto mankind in Christ Jesu our Lord. And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake; That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
The Absolution, or Remission of sins, to be pronounced by the Priest alone, standing; the people still kneeling.
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live; and hath given power, and commandment, to
55
The Book of Common Prayer
his Ministers, to declare and pronounce to his people, being penitent, the Absolution and Remission of their sins : He pardoneth and absolveth all them that truly repent, and unfeignedly believe his holy Gospel. Wherefore let us beseech him to grant us true repentance, and his Holy Spirit, that those things may please him, which we do at this present; and that the rest of our life hereafter may be pure, and holy; so that at the last we may come to his eternal joy; through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The people shall answer here, and at the end of all other prayers, Amen.

From the 1662 Book of Common Prayer, Morning Prayer service.

That does not mean, however, that we have a license to sin without regard for God's law:

Article VII
Of the Old Testament


The Old Testament is not contrary to the New; for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man, being both God and man. Wherefore they are not to be heard which feign that the old fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the law given from God by Moses, as touching ceremonies and rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral.

Also, being justified by faith requires a genuine faith that produces at least some evidence of true conversion:

Article XII
Of Good Works


Albeit that good works, which are the fruits of faith and follow after justification, cannot put away our sins and endure the severity of God's judgement, yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ, and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively faith, insomuch that by them a lively faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the fruit.

Erica said...

As a scientist working for a pharmaceutical company, which I am sure you partake in something I have made, I wanted to give you the scientific basis for gender identity disorder so that I may help you to understand that this in fact is a biological disorder, not just a phenomena in people’s minds. First, as of the next issue of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), the American Psychological Association will be removing Gender Identity Disorder from the book (302.85) and replacing it with a label of "gender incongruence," apart from other sexual paraphilias where it belongs. The American Medical association, at its most recent nation convention, passed three resolutions to remove barriers for transgender health (114, 118 and 122). The American Medical Association would not have done this if there was not sufficient evidence to show that there was a scientific and quantifiable reasoning behind this.

I will also provide for your scientific findings in peer-reviewed literature to substantiate my claims:

A.-M. Bao and D. F. Swaab. Sex Differences in the Brain, Behavior, and Neuropsychiatric Disorders. Neuroscientist, October 1, 2010; 16(5): 550 - 565.

N. Geary. Counterpoint: physiologists should not distinguish "sex" and "gender"
Am J Physiol Regulatory Integrative Comp Physiol, June 1, 2010; 298(6): R1702 - R1704.

A. Garcia-Falgueras and D. F. Swaab. A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. Brain, December 1, 2008; 131(12): 3132 - 3146.

H. Berglund, P. Lindstrom, C. Dhejne-Helmy, and I. Savic. Male-to-Female Transsexuals Show Sex-Atypical Hypothalamus Activation When Smelling Odorous Steroids
Cereb Cortex, August 1, 2008; 18(8): 1900 - 1908.

F. P. M. Kruijver, A. Fernandez-Guasti, M. Fodor, E. M. Kraan, and D. F. Swaab
Sex Differences in Androgen Receptors of the Human Mamillary Bodies Are Related to Endocrine Status Rather Than to Sexual Orientation or Transsexuality
J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., February 1, 2001; 86(2): 818 - 827.

Kruijver FP, Zhou JN, Pool CW, Hofman MA, Gooren LJ, Swaab DF.
Male-to-female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000;85:2034-41.

These are simply a few. Please let me know when you have finished reading these scientific articles and I will try my hardest to help educate you on the science behind this. Also, I can refer you to specialists in the field who can help to educate you in the fact that this is not a choice. No one would ever, ever, ever CHOOSE to be transgender. It is a hard life, with lots of loss, and people like you making them feel less than human. But, if you still believe that being transgender is a choice, I will ask you one question.

When did you choose to be a male?

The answer is, you didn’t, and it was the way you were born. Your brain physiologically matched your body. Arguing religion with a Christian man is like arguing the interpretation of the law with a police officer. Some minds you are not going to change with logic. I hope that now that some one who has the scientific know-how to provide you with hard data, you will try to soften your stance towards this community.

But, I’m not holding my breath.

Oh, by the way, I am a genetic female, whose only ties to the transgender community is that I hate to see a group of people being put down for who they are. I mean, I could say that my feelings towards born-again Christians is that they are only that way because they lack the brain power to actually provide logic or reason to their decisions so they let a book written 2000 years ago dictate to them how to live their lives, instead of actually just thinking for themselves and figuring out what’s right and wrong.

Discrimination, in any form, no matter how good the intentions, is still discrimination, and ignorance will always make people fear what they don’t understand. I'm sure your going to delete this. It was worth a shot.

Charlie J. Ray said...

So homosexuals and transexuals have enough political clout to change the AMA definition to "incongruence". That only proves that science, like religion, operates on authoritarian principles, not total objectivity. Thomas Kuhn's book, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, pretty much unmasks the "objectivity" of science.

The scientific community has its own "Vatican" of sorts. Do you dare to challenge the magisterium?

Discrimination against transgenders and homosexuals is politically correct talk for censureship. In other words, your view is that religious and political dissidents like myself should be censored and silenced by labeling my free speech as "discriminatory" or as "hate speech". But that will never change the fact that saying homosexuals and transgenders do not choose their choices is a non sequitur. Are they machines or human beings with "free" will?

I suppose next you're going to argue that pedophiles do not choose to be pedophiles and therefore pedophilia should not be labeled a psychological disorder?

Ihmisen said...

So, I must ask, where exactly does the Bible say being transgender is an issue?

Charlie J. Ray said...

The Bible makes it clear that God did not intend for men and women to be homosexual or transgender:

Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. (Genesis 2:23-25 ESV)

and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? (Matthew 19:5 ESV)

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." (Ephesians 5:31 ESV)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32 ESV)

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13 ESV)

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

"A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?" 8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery." 10 The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." 11 But he said to them, "Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. (Matthew 19:7-11 ESV)

Anonymous said...

Should inside obey the outside gender or outside obey what is inside. Will it be not elegant anymore when a man masculine soul learn to be a feminine woman soul? It same awkward to be recognize as when someone physically transitioning.

Charlie J. Ray said...

The fact that sinful human beings refuse to accept the gender God assigned to them in creation and at birth is simply a sign of rebellion.

Schizophrenic and confused thinking is just that: delusional.

Anonymous said...

Transgender? Call it what it is: a sex change. I had one 30 years ago. Long before the LGBT label was ever thought of. I don't need validation from anyone. I also don't misinterpret the Bible to make myself feel better. What I did was a sin. Fortunately God forgave me for it along with all the other sins I've committed. He keeps His promises! All you LGBT's out there will do yourselves a big favor if you have the courage to admit your sin and the courage to let God help you with it. There are so many Christians ready to throw people like me into hell. I thank God everyday they aren't the ones making that decision. Trust God; be truthful with Him and yourselves and believe me - He's got you in the palm of His hand: He won't let you fall.

Charlie J. Ray said...

That seems to be a confession of sin, Mr. Anonymous. Unfortunately, what seems to be missing is "repentance". What is repentance exactly? Repentance is literally a change of mind. It is a turning from one's sins, acknowledging them to be rebellion against God. Repentance further is a turning to Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation. Forgiving oneself of one's sins only assuages the conscience with a false security.

As John the Baptist put it, "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:" (Matthew 3:8 KJV)

Continuing in the masquerade is not repentance. Return to your proper gender role assigned by God at birth and live as a eunuch.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I wrote this article four years ago and the vast majority of my blog is to do with systematic and biblical theology, not the homosexuality and transgender issue. Go figure.

Jay said...

Funny how people only ever quote that bit of Leviticus as being immoral.

I take it you don't eat pork or shellfish, you use a rod on your child, stone taxmen and all the wives that you are allowed are veiled when in public.

If not then you have no right to quote the line about two men sleeping together.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I'm always amused by the comments of those who "think" they understand the biblical doctrine of the moral law of God. The Protestant Reformers outlined the three fold doctrine of God's law. First, there are ceremonial and sacrificial laws. Those all point forward to Christ so that all the Old Testament sacrifices are done away by the final sacrifice of Christ at the cross.

The judicial laws and civil laws of Old Testament Israel passed away with that nation's passing away in the dispersion. There is no longer a theocracy.

However, the moral law of God is not done away. It is summarized in the Ten Commandments and particularized in both the Old Testament moral demands and in the New Testament moral demands made by Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

This can be summarized by the 39 Articles of Religion, Article VII:

Article VII
Of the Old Testament
The Old Testament is not contrary to the New; for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man, being both God and man. Wherefore they are not to be heard which feign that the old fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the law given from God by Moses, as touching ceremonies and rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral.


That would mean that the prohibitions against homosexual and transgender sins is absolute in Scripture, which for the Christian is the very Word of God.

Charles Reid said...

I have seen where you repeatedly say that the burden of proof is on those who attempt to prove that transgender and homosexual urges are genetic, or provable by science in general (empirically verifiable, you could say). And yet, I do not think that this is your true problem with the whole idea. If, for example, there were actual scientific proof for the genetic predisposition of such conditions, I would not be surprised to find people who follow your line of thought claiming that just because we are genetically predisposed towards something does not mean that the predisposition is not sin. We all have a predisposition to sin, as evidenced by the effects of the fall, in the garden. Whether or not something is predisposed genetically or is simply a condition of the mind bears little weight on whether or not such a thing is sin. I am a Christian, and although not a political conservative, I do believe 100% in the inerrancy of scripture, and I would never allow myself to excuse away Biblical commands for the sake of my own comfort. I find it difficult, however, to claim that homosexuality and transgender impulses are definitely sinful; for as you said, we are freed from the Law as Christians, and unless you plan on selectively endorsing certain Old Testament commands and ignoring those that are clearly no longer applicable, then you must admit that the verses like those commanding men not to put on the garment of a woman are no longer applicable in our culture. Paul said that all things are lawful, yet not all things are profitable. The end point here is, I think, that although there are things that are sinful, we must be less concerned with the act of the sin than its effect. The act of sin has no bearing on our salvation, if we are Christians, but the effect of the sin can manifest in our culture. I do not believe that transgender or homosexual impulses are sin, and even if they are, I will choose to err on the side of grace, so that I do not make the grievous mistake of choosing law for its own sake above serving the needs of God's creation.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Charles, I have never said that Christians are freed from the Law. If you will read the 39 Articles of Religion carefully Article VII says unequivocally that no man is free from the obligation to obey the moral law.

There are three uses for the moral law of God. 1) The law drives sinners to Christ for mercy. 2) The moral law tells society what is right and wrong as far as general equity of the moral law is applied. 3) The moral law tells Christians how they are live a thankful life of obedience to God.

The moral law has no power to save, which is why the Christian is not under the law as means of attaining, meriting or earning God's forgiveness, right standing with God, or salvation. That is not the same thing as saying Christians are free to sin as much as they want. Grace is not a license to sin. That would be antinomianism or lawlessness.

Furthermore, your opinion as to what is sin cannot change what God unequivocally calls sin in Scripture. Scripture calls sexual immorality sin. In fact, the 7th commandment, Thou shalt not commit adultery, covers all sexual sins. (Exodus 20:14).

Homosexuality and cross dressing are sinful according to Scripture. (See: Deuteronomy 22:5; Leviticus 18:22; Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:18-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

God does not owe anyone anything. If He gave all humankind what every individual deserves everyone would go to hell. Mercy is that God decided to save some of the fallen human race for His own glory. (See: Romans 9:14-23).

Salvation is all of grace and God's mercy. That is not the same thing as saying that Christians are free to sin all they want.

Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4 ESV)

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

Regarding genetics, you're correct. Even if it could be proved that homosexuality is genetic it would not change God's law whatsover. Just as fornication and adultery are not excusable simply because men and women have a propensity to heterosexual sexual sins, so homosexuality is condemned across the board in the Holy Scriptures. Being born a sinner (Psalm 58:3; Psalm 51:3-5) does not excuse sinning. Nor does being unable to obey God's commands excuse sin.

Charlie

Charlie J. Ray said...

I'm continually amazed at the ignorance of most of those arguing for the transgender position. Exceptions do not the rule make. 99.99% of the world's population are born with the correct gender and are raised in that gender.

Telling me about aberrations is just silly. It does not change the points I made in the above article one whit.

Secondly, telling me an anecdotal story about your personal experience is not "science". Sorry but I don't buy testimonials. You'll have to provide hard documentation.

Charlie

K said...

I am quite surprised you claim to be a christian and don't speak in an ounce of love. 2 chapters after your daily bible verse says "speak truth in love" you harden these peoples hearts you do not but move out of compassion but out of judgement how can you not see that you are no better that a pharisee? you condemn these people and yet do not understand their struggles you believe that its just some sexual immoral thing that can be resisted by human power. it says in scripture as the disciples asked jesus "Why is this man blind?" they said so "GOD can show his power" can you not see that jesus didn't cast the stone and the woman because he acted in love? do you think that had a bigger effect? its foolish you are poisoning the image of christianity. paul speaks he says without love you are a gong without a sound. you speak that these people are ignorant but you are ignorant to the basics of the bibles teachings. you don't act in what the god says but in what your worldly knowledge provides for you. we are saved by his mercy not but acts of good will. you are no better then the transexual for all sin is equal to the eyes of the lord. your hate is equal to their transgendered ways.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I don't know why I bother allowing lame comments like yours. First of all, God is love. Wow, you know one verse of the Bible! Congratuations! 1 John 4:7-8 is written to Christians and is an exhortation to them to love one another. This is obviously a different kind of love from the command to "love your enemies". (Matthew 5:44).

But have you read the verses that show God's wrath against the wicked?

The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36 CSB)

The Bible is a holistic document and must be taken as a whole. Try reading it from cover to cover some time. You might find that God does not fit your preconception.

but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming. (Psalm 37:13 ESV)

bigspender said...

Keep preaching the truth Charlie. I came upon your blog after researching for a class to teach my teens at church regarding influence. You sir are an awesome Reasonable Christian. God Bless you.

Bob Hutton said...

Charlie,

Keep up the good work of declaring truth. Don't let the perverts deter you from preaching the Bible.

Bob

Charlie J. Ray said...

The sins of transgender and homosexuality are a curse from the fall of Adam and Eve and are not the result of God's gift:

Romans 1:18-32; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12; Genesis 3:1-24

Thanks for your support, Bob. Pray for sinners that they have been elected and will be effectually called to salvation.

May the peace of God be with you!

ardhanari said...

Deuteronomy 23:1
No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

So, according to your own reasoning if a man has testicular cancer and undergoes an orchiectomy to remove the cancerous tissue; ie. testicles. He will not be welcomed in the house of the lord. I'm going to assume that you'll disagree with this statement, on the platform that this could likely happen to you at some point in your life. However, if you are going to preach the word of God, be CONSISTENT. According to your own values the world of God shall not be edited to fit ones own personal situation. Right! I'm sure you'll have some long-winded explanation, detailing how not all bible verses are meant to be taken literally. My question to you then, Sir, would be who decides what bible verses maintain relevance throughout time? Surely not humans, for we are not God and to choose to edit the word of God and then to go on and preach an edited version of his words would surely be a damning choice.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Taking a small portion of Scripture out of context is merely a pretext for justifying your perversion. The verses you refer to have to do with participating in the holy sacrifices and not being cut off completely from the people. The "assembly" is a term referring to the religious gathering. Calvin's commentary on Deuteronomy 23:1 is clear on this:

I do not doubt, then, but that Moses prohibits those who are defiled by these two stains from communicating in the sacrifices. For although they were circumcised as well as the rest of the chosen people, still God would have them bear this mark of their disgrace, that they might be an example to others, and that the people might be more diligent in preserving themselves from all pollution. This, then, is to be concluded that the privilege which was peculiar to the legitimate Israelites, was to be denied them of being participators and associates [1] in the sacrifices. As to the wounded testicles, the Jews dispute more curiously, in my opinion, that the subject warrants, and after all miss the right meaning. For God intended nothing else than to exclude from the congregation of His people, wherever holy assemblies were held, those who were mutilated or defective in the genital organs; although by synecdoche, He comprehends more than are specified. Finally, by condemning this external bodily defect He commends the excellency of His people that they may remember themselves to be His chosen property, not that they should pride themselves upon it [2] but that the holiness of their life may correspond with such high nobility.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I might add that anyone with any reasonable knowledge of God's laws knows that biblical law is divided into three categories: 1) Ceremonial/sacrificial 2) Criminal or Judicial law and 3) God's moral law.

The 39 Articles of Religion, which is the confessional statement of the Anglican Church at the time of the Reformation states the principle clearly in Article 7:

VII. Of the Old Testament.
THE Old Testament is not contrary to the New; for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man, being both God and man. Wherefore there are not to be heard which feign that the old fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the law given from God by Moses, as touching 1) ceremonies and rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the 2) civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the 3) commandments which are called moral.


I hope this helps. The short answer is that Deuteronomy 23:1 does not apply to today because it is clearly a ceremonial and a judicial or criminal law from the OT. The moral law, i.e., the Ten Commandments and other places where moral principles are outlined in the OT and the NT are still binding on Christians as their guide for Christian living but not to earn or merit God's grace or favor. Salvation is a gift of God, not something that can be earned or measured up to.

Peace....

Charlie J. Ray said...

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. (Romans 1:24-28 ESV)

Dulcis Venenum said...

Being transgendered isn't something that is taught. I'm a prime example of this, being raised and taught my entire life to live an "alpha male" role and was basically force fed masculinity. There was no room for feminism, much less non-heterosexuality. Turns out I'm an extremely feminine translesbian. In your eyes I guess I'll be burning in hell thrice over. And as for "mutilating one's body", is all body modification mutilation? Or just the things who don't agree with. Just admit to being an narcissitic elitist instead of hiding behind a book you don't even begin to understand. Humanity is changing, evolving. You can keep up with it, or stand your ground and become obsolete. Whatever you choose, leave others out of it, don't try to drag others with you. It's your own choice, no one else's.

Much love,
Dulcis Luna Venenum <3

Charlie J. Ray said...

Welp, Sweet poison moon, poison is still poison even if you sweeten it. As the late Gordon H. Clark once said, if a man shoots someone else and commits a murder it was indeed God's will. The man is still totally responsible for what he did yet he could not have chosen otherwise precisely because God determined via secondary causes that the man would act just exactly as he did. This is reprobation in action. It's also God's decree coming to pass in the present.

In the same way, you are absolutely correct. Even if you could prove via science that your condition is the cause of your predisposition to imagining you are of the opposite sex/gender from your physical, genetic, and biological body, it would not justify your actions in following through with sex change surgery or self-mutilation. Even though God has determined that you would choose to do so and that you can choose nothing else, you are still a moral agent and fully accountable to God for your choices. If you wind up in hell--which I have no control over--it will be because God so determined it to be so from before the creation of the world.

As for the Book you so hate, it seems to me that an omnipotent and omniscient God would choose to reveal Himself and the only logical way to communicate is obviously in the propositional truths of divinely inspired revelation. It is not just paper and leaves. It is what the Book actually says in rational form that matters. It's called verbal revelation.

. . . remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,' (Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV)

At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation; 35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, "What have you done?" (Daniel 4:34-35 ESV)

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases. (Psalm 115:3 ESV)


When it gets right down to it God answers to no one. Why would a mere mortal think he or she could tackle an all powerful and eternal God?


I don't believe in free will since the Bible does not teach it. If you are predisposed to evil, it is because God made you that way for His own glory and for His display of justice:

So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- (Romans 9:18-23 ESV)

What I find particularly perplexing is why an article I wrote over four years ago continues to strike a nerve with the gay/lesbian/transgender crowd? It must be because I have the audacity to actually think through the propositions of God's Word?

I have only posted a sampling of the comments I get from those offended by the dogma of Scripture. Imagine how long this comments list would be if I had posted them all? Maybe I should just say that comments are closed and let it go? :)

Charlie J. Ray said...

Elective surgery for a sex change is not the answer for a psychological disorder. Certainly federal funds should not be available for any elective surgery, most especially something as outlandish as a sex change.

Stacy said...

Ok I just read this post and have to comment. As a follower of Christ and a devote Christian and post-op transwoman I feel that yes I may have committed sin by changing my body to match my mind. Everyone has sinned and can't help it but to sin as this is a fallen world. With that said I have repented and still live as female as that is what my body looks like and it matches my feelings. Does that make it right no but I am not into sexual perversions and other sinful desires. What do you think Charlie? You are not the single ambassador for God here on earth.

Charlie J. Ray said...

The ninth commandment says,

"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (Exodus 20:16 NKJ)

That is the moral law and all of us are bound to obey God's moral law. It is our "duty" and we are under an obligation to obey God's law out of gratitude for His saving us if we are truly believing His Word.

While the verse from Exodus applies to testifying against someone on legal issues, the principle is the same for any other lie. If you are a man and you have artificially altered your body by surgery and hormones, then you're basically cross dressing with technology and surgery. If you have repented, then you should go back to dressing as a man and repent of your sinful rebellion against God's creation. He created mankind as male and female. Freedom does not extend to playing god.

Salvation is all of grace but true faith is changing one's mind. The Greek word is metanoia. It is to literally change one's way of thinking. We are to have the mind of Christ, not the mind of the world.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, (Philippians 2:5 NKJ)

Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; (1 Peter 1:13 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

The Bible is THE Word of God. All other opinions and sources of truth fail. The Bible is God's hammer. It shatters the rock of hardened hearts into pieces.

"Is not My word like a fire?" says the LORD, "And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? (Jeremiah 23:29 NKJ)

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. (Ezekiel 36:26-27 NKJ)

Stacy said...

Great, I will declare this then. I have asked God to restore my body and it hasn't happened so I will continue to live as female until he restores my body. So by your logic I should be a guy that looks like a woman? I transitioned very young and had GRS at 26 yrs old. The fact is I cannot just return to living as a male and lose my job, family and new friends. I am getting married to a female (wow I guess I am gay for being with a female) next year and am happy. My soon to be wife would never want anything to do with a man.

Stacy said...

Also I study the Bible KJV daily and pray/worship daily. What has been done cannot be undone unless God wills it.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Following your logic instead of having surgery and taking hormones you should have simply prayed that God would change you from a man to a woman. When God didn't answer your prayer you took it upon yourself to mutilate yourself because the politically correct propaganda of the world approves of your perversion. Please. You did not mind having surgery before. So now your excuse is your body is beyond repair. Maybe you should have thought more logically to begin with?

In essence you're simply proving that you refuse to repent. That's a sign of reprobation.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Article XVII of the Thirty-nine Articles

. . . As the godly consideration of Predestination and our Election in Christ is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh and their earthly members and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: so for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the devil doth thrust them either into desperation or into wretchlessness of most unclean living no less perilous than desperation.

Furthermore, we must receive God's promises in such wise as they be generally set forth in Holy Scripture; and in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we have expressly declared unto us in the word of God.

Stacy said...

So you are telling me I am predestined to damnation? If thats the case where is free will? If I was given over to reprobation then I wouldn't have the desire to worship the Lord and read my Bible daily. Just be careful that you don't get caught up in your judgement as there are many places in the Bible that speak against this. You should be speaking of love like Jesus instead of trying to argue scripture with people. BTW I am a former Liberty University student and a pastor in Ohio for a Christian Church (Pentecostal), changed over from Baptist.

Charlie J. Ray said...

There is no such thing as "free will". There is free moral agency but not "free will". Libertarian free will would mean that there are two equal choices. If there is a God, then He is omnipotent. That means that whatever happens is determined by God. He is not the author of sin but He is the cause of all that happens, both good and bad. Simply because you are unable to repent does not remove your accountability and responsibility for your rebellion. You are the author of your own sin.

As for your being a Christian before this rebellion of yours, can you say "apostasy"?

This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Timothy 1:18-20 ESV)


They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. (1 John 2:19 ESV)


It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 5:1-5 ESV)

It is not clear that you are reprobate since you have not died yet. If you die in your rebellion, the it would appear that you are not elect. The warning passages are there for a reason.

May God open your eyes to the truth...

Charlie J. Ray said...

Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. (John 8:34 ESV)

Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-9; Psalm 51:4-5

Stacy said...

I have been refraining from quoting scripture but I will use the most quoted: John 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I am a believer and a follower of Jesus. I stay away from quoting scripture so not to debate the Holy word of God but I can do this all day. What I did was done before I was saved and cannot be undone but by God himself. You are arrogant in your judgement and you will be judged by how you judge. We are not under the Mosaic laws anymore as Jesus came to fulfill the law and bring us a new covenant. I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior and this is part of my cross that I must bear. There is nothing anyone on this planet can do to restore what I did so I have to live the best way I can until the time God restores everything. I cannot just quit taking HRT (hormones) as there would be repercussions ie; heart issues, osteoporosis and other health issues and I cannot take testosterone as my body cant handle it now. So if the body is the temple I must take care of it while I inhabit it.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Anyone can quote Scripture out of context. But why would you not want to support your view from Scripture since Scripture is the very Word of God? The Bible IS God's Word. Your opinions are just that: opinions.

But you didn't quote the rest of John 3:16.

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." (John 3:19-21 ESV)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36 ESV)

And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. (2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV)


What part of God "created" them male and female didn't you understand? Genesis 1:27-28; Genesis 2:23-25

Charlie J. Ray said...

I am not your judge. God's Word will judge you.

If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. (John 12:47-48 ESV)
But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" (Matthew 4:4 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

As for your claim that the OT is irrelevant, 2 Timothy 3:15-17 is speaking about the OT since the NT was not yet written.

While it is true that sacrificial law and the criminal/judicial/civil law of the OT passed away with that nation, it is not true that the 10 commandments and the moral law are passed away:

Article VII
Of the Old Testament


The Old Testament is not contrary to the New; for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man, being both God and man. Wherefore they are not to be heard which feign that the old fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the law given from God by Moses, as touching ceremonies and rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral.

That's from the 39 Articles of Religion, the confession of faith of Reformed Anglicanism. Notice also that the Gospel is preached in the OT!

Stacy said...

That is exactly why I don't quote scripture. You didn't even finish reading my post and just had to make a point. You seem to have to make a point and use scripture out of context also. As a senior pastor of a small church and out reach ministry I too can keep countering you. Free will is given to us if it isn't then anyone would just have to live their lives anyway they wanted as it is God who would control them. You need to read what you have written as it contradicts scripture. What you said about no one having free will is not Biblical and is more like eastern religions. Jesus came for the lost and I a, a lost person and found through him and by grace I have been forgiven of my sins. By you very nature you turn people away instead of helping them to come to know the Lord in a way that is Christ like.

Stacy said...

Wow you didn't allow my last post interesting. Since you want the law then you will be judged by the law read Galatians. Since your talking about the mosaic law then you cannot eat pork, shellfish and you must stone your wife when she is disobedient to you along with a host of other parts of the law. you cannot pick and choose what you want to from scripture.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I posted all your comments. You obviously did not read Article 7 from our confession of faith, the 39 Articles of Religion. Read it again. It says the dietary laws, i.e. ceremonial and sacrificial laws are passed away. Only a non-Christian would be so silly as to think the moral law is no longer binding for Christians as their rule for Christian living. It's called the third use of the moral law.

The 1st use: the law convicts the sinner of sin and drives them to Christ. Romans 3:20; 7:7; Galatians 3:24, 25. 2nd use: The law tells the civil authorities what criminal laws to pass to keep the peace: Romans 13:1-5; 1 Tim 1:9 and third use: the moral law tells the Christian how to live in gratitude for God's mercy: Romans 6:1-2; Rom 6:17-18

This is Christianity 101. Everybody knows that grace is not a license to sin. Keeping the law is not going earn anyone salvation. But those who are saved by grace live a progressively sanctified life, growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord. John 17:17; 2 Peter 3:18

Charlie J. Ray said...

You can twist the Scriptures to your own destruction all you like. 2 peter 3:16 It won't change the plain meaning of the text one whit. Scripture is perspicuous and plain. (2 tim 3:15; 2 Peter 1:19-21.

Stacy said...

One more thing I haven't ever committed sodomy as a matter of fact I haven't even had sex for over a decade. You seem to lump someone like myself with homosexuals and those who are sexual deviants which I am not of them. I am a God fearing Christian who believes in the Holy Bible and work to bring the word to those whom are lost so they may find our Lord Jesus and repent so they my find salvation. I will be married sometime next year and my wife and I will continue our ministry together.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I'm just going on what you said. You said you mutilated your body and you're pretending to be a woman. Doesn't that strike you as against the Scriptures??? Genesis 1:27; Genesis 2:23-25. Marriage is between one man and one woman. You've violated creation and now you want a pretend lesbian marriage? If you're a man, then stop lying to everyone around you and be a man. 9th commandment, Do not lie.

Debbie A said...

Gn 1:27: "male and female he created them". Doesn't say "male or female". It is not as easy as it first appears to differentiate between male or female. What criteria do you use? appearance of genitals? chromosomes? the brain? May I recommend this article to you: http://www.gires.org.uk/dysphoria.php It was not God who defined my gender at birth, it was a midwife. She did her best but she got it wrong. I know that as clearly as I know that I am right handed and not left handed. Debbie

Charlie J. Ray said...

Do you know your left hand from your right? Left and right are logical terms assigned to you at birth by your midwife. But then left and right are assigned meanings in language, which logical propositions would be irrational and without meaning if language is arbitrary and caprciously assigned meanings at whim or fit some presupposed agenda like: "I was born with a gender or sexual body I don't like."

The biblical text says what it says. The proposition there is not to be re-interpreted by modern relativism and existentialism. The Bible does not say, "And God created them dog and cat." So now instead of a dog you want to be a cat. Obviously a dog and a cat are different.

OK, that's a bad analogy since dogs and cats are different species. But the point is the same. Men and women are as different as dogs and cats.

To alter God's creation for personal preference is in essence rebellion against the Creator. It is like building the tower of Babel. It is purely idolatry to play God in the issue of being born male or female and then deciding you're going to redefine the terms because you don't like being what you are.

The proposition of the Bible is crystal clear. A male is a male and a female is a female. This is even more clear when God commands, "Be fruitful and multiply." Genesis 1:28.

I don't need to read scientific propaganda that tries to reinterpret metaphysical reality to fit a presupposed conclusion to know that science is limited to what it can practically accomplish. Science can multilate your body and fake the other gender in much the same way that plastic surgery can artificially alter appearances, including breast implants or "internal falsies". Ever notice how fake the Hollywood celebrities look when they have all those cosmetic surgeries? Science cannot change your chromosomes from male to female or female to male. Science cannot give you functioning sexual reproductive parts. At best science can turn you into a man-made freak like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. What science cannot do is create you male or female. Only God can do that. To rebel against your creator may seem like a good idea but the result is a cheap imitation, not the genuine article.

The Hebrew terms mean univocally the same as the English words: Male and Female. Now, even so-called "trans-sexuals" know these words mean this. But the problem is they want to change their physical reality to fit a preconceived imagination they have conjured up in the mind. The words are completely meaningless if they mean anything other than what the logic of language explicitly assigns to the words. The propositional truth claim of Scripture therefore stands. God created you with the physical body you received at birth. All your cosmetic surgeries are like the tower of Babel merely an idolatrous attempt to play God--and it is bad attempt at that.

Charlie

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:27 ESV)

(Genesis 1:27 WTT) וַיִּבְרָ֙א אֱלֹהִ֤ים׀ אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ בְּצַלְמ֔וֹ בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹת֑וֹ זָכָ֥ר וּנְקֵבָ֖ה בָּרָ֥א אֹתָֽם׃

P.S. Androgyny is not what the text says. The difference between the sexes is as different as night and day, cat and dog. Humankind is divided into two distinct sexes, genders, without which reproduction is physically impossible. The propagation of the human race depends on it.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I should add that addressing God with female pronouns is unjustifiable. Scripture teaches that God transcends physical appearances (John 4:24). The divine image and likeness in mankind is not the physical body but the soul, including intellect, will, memories, etc.

However, that being said, Scripture always addresses God in masculine titles, pronouns. The reason for that is obvious. The male is the stronger of the two sexes and God is a mighty warrior. Of course, the few feminine metaphors scattered here and there are meant to show that God is also nurturing. It does not prove that the Hebrew people thought God was a woman or a "she".

Debbie A said...

Dear Charlie,
Thank you for publishing my earlier comment and link to GIRES. I would like to pick up on your reply: "Science cannot change your chromosomes from male to female or female to male." It is true that science cannot change chromosomes, but chromosomes do not determine your gender. Rather, they trigger chemicals during fetal development. Usually XY chromosomes result in both the brain and the body being masculinized. But sometimes this does not happen. Occasionally the brain is left female (in the case of the MTF transsexual); occasionally both the body and the brain are left female (in the case of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome: see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome). Nobody - in the church or elsewhere - doubts that AIS women are women. So why the issue with transsexuals?

Debbie

Charlie J. Ray said...

I don't know what church you belong to, so I won't speculate about what your church believes. The issue is whether or not Scripture is inerrant, verbally inspired Word of God. The Bible IS the Word of God. Knowledge of the Creator AND all other branches of knowledge are only possible through divine and special revelation in Scripture and in Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:1-3; 2 Peter 1:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Timothy 6:20; Colossians 2:8). That would include science, history, and philosophy. History is an approximation at best and political propaganda at worst. The victors get to write their own popular history.

Philosophy is likewise a dead end. Philosophy ends up eventually in agnosticism, atheism, and skepticism. Philosophy does not make knowledge possible at all.

Science is continually correcting errors. That in itself shows that science is not some infallible, inerrant reporting of reality. Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions established that scientific peer authority functions on a sociological and philosophical level much like the Roman Catholic magisterium, "The truth is what we say it is." Unfortunately, science is continually proving itself wrong and even when it is corrected the correction is wrong! Einstein's theory of general relativity turned out to be wrong and was replaced by Heisenberg's theory of probability and quantum mechanics among other "theories".

I said all that to arrive at this. Basically, you are reading metaphysical philosophy back into basic genetic and biological factors, something that is irrational and flatly unscientific since science limits itself strictly to empirical evidences which can be reproduced in a laboratory. First off, my point stands that science cannot reproduce male or female. So it fails. Science and medical technology can "mask" biological physics but it cannot replicate them whatsoever. Your contention that a female "mind" exists in a male body is purely a philosophical assertion which has nothing to do with "science" at all. Thus your entire argument is a non sequitur and is not empirically demonstrable by any stretch of the scientific method. If you know someone who can replicate a soul in a test tube, let me know. How can science explain the human soul? The minute you start asserting that the soul has materialistic causes you have made a huge philosophical leap into metaphysics, not pure empirical science. Not only that but you have denied that there is a God since only the God revealed in Holy Scripture can explain the existence of the universe or spiritual realities like the human soul.

Therefore, when you make assertions like the one above, you are merely making a religious claim, not a scientific claim. If and when science creates a sentient being in robotics get back to me. When science can explain the metaphyics of the soul, get back to me. Cartesian philosophy said, "I think therefore I am." That's basically your argument. You "think" your body and your mind are in cognitive dissonance regarding your gender preference but gender is a physical reality, not a projection of the mind. If your mind is in dissonance with your body, it is a psychological, philosophical, and metaphysical issue, not something that can be proved by pure empirical science.

I hope this helps you understand why I think your argument is purely politically correct propaganda masquerading under the disguise of "so-called science."

Charlie J. Ray said...

I should add that your appeal to biological exceptions do not a rule make. That's not only a non sequitur but is also a fallacy known as appealing to the exception. Simply because some people are born with physical deformities or genetic abnormalities does not justify normalizing what is abnormal. In your case, you admit that the abnormality is a not a genetic defect but an issue regarding what you "think". Since "thinking" is a philosophical problem that has yet to be solved, it is a huge stretch for you to appeal to thoughts as if biological exceptions prove your thoughts have biological sources. It could just as well be that your thoughts were affected by environmental factors, political propaganda, and perversion.

Charlie J. Ray said...

See also: Philsophy of Mind


And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7 KJV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

See also this excellent summary of the problem of illogical induction regarding the philosophy of science:

Gordon H. Clark's Philosophy of Science.

Of course, Clark is by no means the first to realize these problems. Bertrand Russell did:

“All inductive arguments in the last resort reduce themselves to the following form: ‘If this is true, that is true: now that is true, therefore this is true.” This argument is of course, formally fallacious. Suppose I were to say: “If bread is a stone and stones are nourishing, then this bread will nourish me; now this bread does nourish me; therefore it is a stone, and stones are nourishing.’ If I were to advance such an argument, I should certainly be thought foolish, yet it would not be fundamentally different from the argument upon which all scientific laws are based.” The Scientific Outlook By Bertrand Russell (Publisher: Routledge; New edition (July 18, 2001)

And Karl Popper in Conjectures and Refutations:

“First, although in science we do our best to find the truth, we are conscious of the fact that we can never be sure whether we have got it…. We know that our scientific theories always remain hypotheses…. In science there is no“knowledge” in the sense in which Plato and Aristotle understood the word, in the sense which implies finality; in science, we never have sufficient reason for the belief that we have attained the truth…. Einstein declared that his theory was false: he said that it would be a better approximation to the truth than Newton’s, but he gave reasons why he would not, even if all predictions came out right, regard it as a true theory…. Our attempts to see and to find the truth are not final, but open to improvement;… our knowledge, our doctrine is conjectural;… it consist of guesses, of hypotheses, rather than of final and certain truths.”


There are some spelling a grammatic errors in the blog article to which I have linked. However, the content of the article itself is a reliable expression of the issues here.

Charlie J. Ray said...

I might also point out that the Christian theologian or Christian philosopher would be justified in presupposing that homosexuality and the trans-gender issue is a result of the fall of Adam and mankind's rebellion against God. (See Genesis 3:6,7; Romans 5:12). God turns those who look to corrupted reason and creation for justification for their rebellion over to a reprobate mind as punishment (Romans 1:18-24). And, finally, God works through secondary causes to bring about His decrees to reprobation and election. God is not the author of moral evil (James 1:13-18) but God is the cause of everything that happens (Isaiah 46:9-10; Isaiah 45:7; Acs 2:23; Acts 4:27-28; 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

It is in God alone that we live and move and have our being (Acts 17:28-31). If men are rebels against God and His moral law, it is because God has willed and decreed it to be so. (Deuteronomy 29:29).

Debbie A said...

Dear Charlie,
Thank you for your lengthy and comprehensive reply. I'd just like to ask you two more questions and then I will leave you in peace (bearing in mind that your original post was over four years ago)...
(a) A woman with AIS (see the wikipedia link in my previous post) has chromosomes XY. What do you consider her true gender to be: male or female?
(b) How is our gender determined: by God; by the opinion of a midwife; by our chromosomes; or by some other means?
Debbie

Charlie J. Ray said...

I have a better question. "How are evil men made evil?" The answer is that God has determined it that way from before the creation of the world. So your question does not go back far enough. Even if God made people with deformities, which He obviously does, it would not make your rebellion justified by God's revealed will in the moral laws and precepts in Scripture. (Deuteronomy 29:29). I cannot tell why God curses some men with physical and mental diseases. His reasons for His secret decrees are not mine to know. I only know that appealing to such aberrations as justification for breaking God's moral laws is a fallacious argument. (Exodus 20:1-17).

Charlie J. Ray said...

So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? (Romans 9:18-24 ESV)

Charlie J. Ray said...

The fact is you're still appealing to abnormality to justify your argument. It is a logical fallacy.

Think of it this way. Babies are born with all sorts of diseases and physical handicaps. Suppose a child is born with club feet. I think club feet is how I "feel" good about myself and I want club feet. So I have surgery to correct my body to fit my perception. Therefore I was really born as a person with club feet in my true identity as a "person". So having the surgery to then have club feet to match my "birth identity" in my "mind" proves that I was supposed to be born with club feet, even though I wasn't. The end justifies the means. Claims appealing to an unfalsifiable genetic cause of my mental condition therefore are logically irrational. Since your argument is essentially presupposed and not verifiable or falsifiable, your argument is a metaphysical argument and not an empirical argument.

As for aberrations mentioned in the article, those aberrations are no less disturbing than being born with cancer or other diseases. Being born with a disease does not justify your mental condition, however.

Even if you attribute your wrong thinking to disease in the body, it would only prove that God has cursed mankind with diseases and pestilences (Genesis 3:17; Deuteronomy 29:19-20), all a result of Adam's rebellion and original sin (Genesis 3:6-7; Romans 5:12).

Stacy said...

Charlie, with your concepts of no free will answer me this. Why did God send send his son Jesus then? If we have no free will then why even bother giving a testimony or try to debate this issue? You are the one twisting scripture for your own ego and arrogance. If God so loved the world then why would he condemn just for his own glory? You see we do have free will and have the choice to serve the Lord or not to serve. I choose to serve the Lord and will for eternity.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Define "free will". And while you're at it, do angels have free will in heaven? And does God have "free will"?

Libertarian free will does not exist. If so, then what would guarantee that the saints in heaven will not choose to go to hell instead?

Libertarian free will implies a choice between two equally ultimate choices. Obviously there are environmental factors and a whole host of other factors. Answer me this: If you have free will then how can you say that your gender in your mind is predetermined? You contradict yourself:) If you have "free will" then you're conceding that you deliberately chose to do what you did and it was not predetermined from birth in your "mind".

Second of all, the doctrine of "libertarian free will" contradicts the Scriptures. The Bible teaches that mankind is in slavery to original sin and that the divine image and likeness is totally corrupted through and through. If men are free, why do they sin? The Bible declares that a leopard cannot change its spots and neither can men stop sinning who are accustomed to sin. He who sins is a slave to sin and can do nothing else but sin. Only God can raise a sinner from spiritual death.

Ye must be born again is not a statement about a "free choice" a sinner is commanded to do to regenerate himself. No, it is a conditional statement establishing a necessary act of God upon the sinner which enables that individual to believe and to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I already cited and quoted numerous verses from the Bible proving that predestination and predetermination are the active decrees of an omnipotent God who always brings about what He decrees to happen. (Isaiah 46:9-11).

Charlie J. Ray said...

I don't know why I bother answering silly assertions like:

But is this not precisely what Paul does with the Old Testament? He clearly doesn't believe those parts of the Law that offer forgiveness or a way of return--for he pretends that the Law doesn't offer any such thing but that by breaking one command one becomes damned to where there is no possibly recovery except by the abolishment of the Law. And he quotes the Old Testament capriciously and out of context to establish his view that the Law is abolished.

First of all, Paul is an apostle:) You ain't:) DUH. The last I checked an apostle has to be an eyewitness to the resurrection and the ministry of Jesus. Paul meets that criteria since he saw Jesus on the Damascus Road. Only an apostle has the right to write Scripture. He has the seal of God's approval.

Second of all, your silly presuppositions that Paul is in error is simply a bare assertion that Paul erred and is nothing more than a sinful presupposition. You can't prove Paul erred. I presuppose the Bible is true and without error. You'll have to prove it wrong:) If you can:) As I've already asserted you would need to be omnipotent to KNOW that Paul erred.

Charlie J. Ray said...

The reality is that you have merely presupposed Scripture is not a unified and harmonious book that is without error. You have not proved it. If you assume that it is errant and inconsistent, then you have merely made an assumption.

At one time the Assyrians were a mythological people mentioned in the Bible. Now it has been proved that they were a real nation and people of Biblical times. Be that as it may, the Christian is under no obligation to prove the Bible is true since it cannot be proved. But then neither can any other historical account be proved in the secular world. So what's your point?

My starting point is the axiom that the Bible is God's inspired and infallible and inerrant Word. So you presuppose it is just another Book. But you can't help quoting it for your own dissimulating purposes. That would be disingenuous at best.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Also, I'm not a Dispensationalist. The OT preaches Jesus and the Gospel in many places. The Law is not the Gospel but there are places in the Law where we see Christ foreshadowed and where the Gospel is mentioned. The 39 Articles of Religion, which is the confession of faith for the English Reformation says:

Article VII
Of the Old Testament


The Old Testament is not contrary to the New; for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man, being both God and man. Wherefore they are not to be heard which feign that the old fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the law given from God by Moses, as touching ceremonies and rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the commandments which are called moral.


In fact 2 Timothy 3:15 refers to the OT Scriptures since the NT had not been fully written or canonized at that time. When Paul says that salvation comes from knowing Scripture he is talking about the OT! The OT is SCRIPTURE.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Gordon H. Clark and the Philsophy of Science You might want to study a bit about the philosophy of science before assuming that "science" can prove anything at all, especially the transgender or homosexual condition.

Sora S said...

Simply put....Your an idiot who knows not of what they speak and if you actually put as much time into doing something productive for the world as you do into believing your own bullshit, then the world would be a slightly better and more accepting place.
To be very truthful on the religion matter, if you believe god makes all of us in his own image, then god is a little trans himself. However if he wants to hate me forever more for doing what i am doing, then so be it, he can stick his bible and his laws up his holy behind. I would rather be happy and in sin than unhappy and serving your god. I ask you the question then, why would "god" create transgender people and cause us to go through what we have to go through, that is not love, that is cruelty, why not just make us the correct gender. Sooo based on this from the christian perspective, we are meant to be trans, we are meant to be doing what we are doing because otherwise god would never have created us like this.

Amy (trans, damn proud of it and if christianity is right has ever intention of wearing the most amazing red dress and heels whilst facing the lord and his book of names)

Charlie J. Ray said...

Your logic is so irrational that even a child could see through it. The Bible claims that God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1; 1:27; 2:20-25). He created mankind as male and female. The physical and biological and genetic makeup is God given in the divine image, along with the capacity to think logically (Genesis 1:26). Although because of the fall even the physical body can have diseases and dysfunctions it does not confirm mental disorders as being "normal". In fact, even mental illness is a result of God's curse against mankind when Adam rebelled (Deuteronomy 28:28).

God alone is to be worshipped (Exodus 20:1-3). To worship the creature rather than the Creator is idolatry and rebellion:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-- and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 1:18-25 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

>>>I ask you the question then, why would "god" create transgender people and cause us to go through what we have to go through, that is not love, that is cruelty, why not just make us the correct gender.<<<

This one is easy to answer. Since Adam rebelled God cursed you along with all mankind. God has every right to curse mankind because Adam represented all men. (Romans 5:12-14).

God is absolutely sovereign over even your rebellion:

The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. 5 Everyone proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; Though they join forces, none will go unpunished. 6 In mercy and truth Atonement is provided for iniquity; And by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil. (Proverbs 16:4-6 NKJ)

Stacy said...

Charlie, I don't believe God creates evil because by your logic if he does for his own glory then I would hav to say he is true evil and would never want to be with him do eternity. The God I know would never be how you say. We shall see when our time comes to stand before the judgement seat you will either hear welcome or depart from me. I liv my life by how God directs me to and I dont judge others. Maybe you should read Mathew 23 KJV. I had GRS at a very young age an it cannot be reversed so how is one to live? If God wants me to be a male than he will change me back.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Simply put putting yourself in the place of God is called idolatry. The Creator decides your physical body and your genetic makeup from before the creation of the world. To rebel against the way God has made you is to rebel against God Himself:

Charlie J. Ray said...

God did not "create" evil in the beginning. Adam was created good:

LORD'S DAY 3

Question 6. Did God then create man so wicked and perverse?

Answer: By no means; but God created man good, 1and after His own image, in 2true righteousness and holiness, that he might rightly know God his Creator, heartily love Him and live with Him in eternal happiness to glorify and praise Him.3

Question 7. Whence then proceeds this depravity of human nature?

Answer: From the fall and disobedience of our first parents, Adam and Eve, 4in Paradise; hence our nature is become so corrupt, that we are all conceived and born in sin.5

Question 8. Are we then so corrupt that we are wholly incapable of doing any good, and inclined to all wickedness?

Answer: Indeed we are; 6except we are regenerated by the Spirit of God.7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Gen. 1:31;

2 Gen. 1:26-27; Col. 3:10; Eph. 4:24

3 Eph. 1:6; 1 Cor. 6:20;

4 Gen. 3:6; Rom. 5:12, 18-19;

5 Psa. 51:5; Gen. 5:3;

6 Gen. 6:5; Job 14:4; Job 15:14, 16;

7 John 3:5; Eph. 2:5;

Heidelberg Catechism: Lord's Day 3

Charlie J. Ray said...

First of all, you mutilated yourself, which is a violation of the moral law of God. Now you want a supernatural miracle to reverse the damage you did to yourself?

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 ESV

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Leviticus 19:28 ESV

You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 14:1 ESV

“You are the sons of the Lord your God. You shall not cut yourselves or make any baldness on your foreheads for the dead.

SOMEBODY423 said...

Hi Charlie,

I agree with your stance. I just have one problem, the name calling. I know sometimes it's hard not to react when others stoop to these levels, but please don't lower yourself. I believe anyone with a proper education can have a conversation with someone that opposes their views and still respect one other. I know respect is earned, but grace goes a long way. I would hate for some reading your comments to be turned off by some of the language used. Granted we are all guilty of losing ourselves briefly every now and then, but it is much harder when in writing and just shows lack of self control. Otherwise, thanks for such an in depth conversation and many links from both sides. I had been wondering if Science had recently proven anything to uphold the ideas of the LGBT groups. Keep up the good work, just tone done a notch :)

SOMEBODY423 said...

Hi Charlie, this is my first time on the blog and I just realized the comment wasn't showing up because it was pending approval. Sorry for the multiple entries. It's ok if you don't want to post it was really just a note to you anyway. Have a good night :)

Thanks, Rachel

Charlie J. Ray said...

Somebody, you should use your real name if you want to post here. Be that as it may, you're right that I should be more logical and use less emotive language. However, since I'm dealing with those with no respect for God or Christianity and little to no training in logic or theology is is sometimes beneficial to state the facts bluntly. They will not hear anything I have to say because society and the politically correct propaganda of the world (2 Corinthians 4:4) has blinded them to the truth. In fact, Scripture says that God has sent them a spirit of delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12).

You might be surprised to learn that I do not believe Arminians, Pentecostals, or Roman Catholics are genuinely saved since what they teach is basically pelagianism.


Salvation is all of God. Only God can open blinded eyes and raise the dead. (Ephesians 2:1-5; Acts 16:14; John 12:40).

Sincerely yours,

Charlie

Charlie J. Ray said...

Rachel, I have no power to turn anyone away from God. Only God can elect and reprobate. Only God can convert the lost or harden the reprobates (Romans 1:18-21; Acts 16:14; John 12:40; Romans 9:11-13).

ishiwoman said...

Wow! Although I see this alot- I am still shocked by how many people are delusional enough to think that they can be practicing gay/transgender and "Christian" omg!! Wow!! And the tricks that you use to attack Charlie - wow. Unoriginal!

He makes a stand in the truth - and you attack him with accuasations that he's not Christian enough?? Are you serious?? I can understand the people who can't seem to overcome these feelings - but if you really meant it that you wanted God to 'take this from you' you would follow it up with action. Meaning, you would continue to live with your God given gender and deal with your compulsions and negative feelings. But you're ridiculous and arrogant enough to demand sexual gratification and "living" as a transgender as some kind of need like food or water - if that's true, then what you describe is an addiction!!

I am a woman and I am single, therefore if I don't ever get married, I accept that I will never have sex again! By your sick reasoning - that would mean I wouldn't be able to control myself and would 'need' to act out with men, whether or not I was married because my 'nature' would force me to????

If you are serious about being a Christian God would show you this truth - you would be healed, you would know and live in the truth! But God knows the secret place in your heart where you have preferred "your truth" and preferred your evil ways - and so he's turned you over to that!

You jump on the bandwagon of "Jesus is gorgiving" when it suits you! Yes, he's forgiving, but you're not repentant!

Oh - here it comes...am i being judgemental? LOL!!

And the lies that some so-called Christians spew are the worst of all, saying that finding this blog would have turned you off of Christianity?? You are so full of it! I used to be like you! Arrogant and rebellious - trying to manipulate real Christians!

I was wrong! As are you! Hopefully you'll see that before the end of your life!

Thank you Charlie for this wonderful post - and even more than that, your great comments!!!

God Bless You!

Charlie J. Ray said...

Thanks for commenting, Is His Woman....

The word of God is forever established in the heavens. (Psalm 119:89).

Debbie A said...

@ishiwoman. Thanks for your comments. If Charlie would permit it, though, I would just like to ask that you do not judge; let God be the judge. Debbie

Charlie J. Ray said...

Trans-sexuals are under God's judgment already. Just as homosexuality is a sign of God's judgment against America so the transgender disorder is a sign of God's judgment against America and against the individuals who are stricken with God's curse of mental disorders:

"The LORD will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 "The LORD will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. (Deuteronomy 28:27-28 NKJ)
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

The king spoke, saying, "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty?" 31 While the word was still in the king's mouth, a voice fell from heaven: "King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: the kingdom has departed from you! 32 And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses." 33 That very hour the word was fulfilled concerning Nebuchadnezzar; he was driven from men and ate grass like oxen; his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair had grown like eagles' feathers and his nails like birds' claws. 34 And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. (Daniel 4:30-34 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?" (Daniel 4:35 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

Transgender for now is still considered a mental disorder, although the political propaganda is moving to change science so that it "proves" it's ok to be gay and transgendered. Go figure:

Gender Identity Disorder

Andy said...

Hello Charlie.
I have a few questions for you:
1. What does the bible say about lesbianism?
2. In many of the comments opposing yours, people have brought up the fact that you do not speak with love as the Bible and Jesus himself preach. Why, when addressing these points, do you speak with such vulgarity and sarcasm? Do you aim to be hurtful or patronizing to others, or is it a consequence of your mentality?
3. Sexuality has nothing to do with gender identity. Please do not make that mistake. I am a member of the Trans society, yet my sexuality remains unaffected.
4. If being gay or trans was made illegal, what would you propose the punishment to be?


Thank you for your time and consideration.
A.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Andy (?) I'm assuming you're lady pretending to be a man since you claim to be a member of the transgender "society". You'll have to define terms here since gender identity is the biological gender everyone is born with. I was born a male and all my sisters were female:) That's simple enough.

To answer your first question, the Bible clearly says that women with women is sinful:

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. (Romans 1:24-26 NKJ)

Furthermore it is clear that in the creation God intended for sex and marriage to be between one man and one woman. Jesus repeats this in the Gospels when he spoke out against divorce:

And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning`made them male and female,' 5 "and said,`For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh '? (Matthew 19:4-5 NKJ)

Your question in #2 is irrelevant since it is basically ad hominem and a fallacious question.

Point #3 if flat out unbiblical since obviously God is sovereign. Whatsoever comes to pass, including one's biological and physical body, is predetermined by God at birth. Therefore it would be rebellion against God to surgically alter the body because someone is confused in their mind about their gender identity or because they have desires to be the opposite sex instead of the gender assigned to them at birth by the Almighty.

As for point #4, you're simply baiting me into stating something that you can then use as a fallacious argument against the clear teaching of the Bible. However, the bottom line here is that God has appointed the government and Christians are to be submitted to the rulers and laws of the land in which they live. (Romans 13). Even if Christians disagree with homosexuality and the transgender perversions of God's original creation, Christians are still obligated to tolerate pagan laws that endorse such perversion.

A good example of that is the Apostle Paul's dealing with the Corinthian church where the culture around the Christians there was completely immoral and perverted. Yet Christians are called to be different from the world.

As I stated many times above, no nation today is obligated to enforce the stoning laws of the Old Testament since the criminal laws of the OT nation of Israel passed away with that nation (See Article 7 of the 39 Articles of Religion).

Paul is not saying that Christians today should endorse the death penalty for homosexuality. (Romans 1:32) He is saying that homosexuals are "deserving of death". He says this not to call for the death penalty in any literal sense but to point out the severity of the sin of idolatry which is at the root of the homosexual rebellion against God and creation.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Andy, I might add that your intolerance for the Christian religion is fairly obvious. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to "hate" Christians for their religious beliefs while at the same time you are pretending to be "tolerant"?

Andy said...

Charlie,
Thank you for responding.
I would just like to say that I am very religious. I do not "hate" Christians or Christianity. In fact, I find the basis of the religion to be quite amazing. I am truly tolerant of whoever I meet or speak with. Though I may judge them reflexively, like any other person would, I do not criticize them or come to conclusions about them based on a few short sentences.

Also, I do not intend to bait you into anything. I simply want to know what you truly think. There are some who say that queer people should be quarantined until they cease to procreate, but that is an extreme method that, ultimately, would not succeed.

Another point that I would like to make is that, assuming that all queer people are condemned for their sins in the eyes of God, why must we be prosecuted further on the mortal plane? If only God has the power to judge someone for their sins, then why is there so much judgement coming from human beings?

When I say "transgender society" I am referring to the broad umbrella under which many of us live. It may seem rather radical to some, but there are more than 2 genders. I will not get into this as it may spark more conflict than necessary, but I only wish to say that there is much more than meets the eye.

And as to the language that you are using to describe liberal or differing beliefs, I would kindly suggest that you research the word "Pagan", as it is clearly not the correct word for you to be using. If you wish for everyone to tolerate each other's religions, then please do not refer to them with such archaic terms.

Thank you again, I value your opinion to the utmost.
-A

Charlie J. Ray said...

"So I said,`Who are You, Lord?' And He said,`I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 `But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 `I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 `to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.' (Acts 26:15-18 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

Dictionary.com defines pagan this way under definition #2:

pagan: 2.
a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, gentile; idolator; nonbeliever.

Charlie J. Ray said...

When modern science promotes unbiblical morality in the guise of so-called "science", then the Christian is obligated to respectfully disagree.

The Biblical View of Science

"Many non-Christians, and all too many Christians, are of the opinion that science, (i.e., the physical or natural sciences) is an ever-growing body of truth about the universe. The progress of science, its technological triumphs, so we are told, demonstrate its truth. Science is seemingly unassailable. After all, it works doesn’t it? And isn’t success the measure of truth?"

This being the case, so it goes, when the Bible and science appear to be at odds, we need to re-interpret the Bible. For example, since science tells us (and the pope agrees) that (some sort of) evolution is a fact, not just a theory, we need to take a fresh look at Genesis 1. No longer can we assert with the Westminster Shorter Catechism (Q 9) that “the work of creation is God’s making all things of nothing, by the Word of His power, in the space of six days, and all very good.” Six-day creationism needs to be re-examined. It is, we are assured, an obscurantist view of things."

To speak against this sort of scientific thinking is almost blasphemous in some circles, because, for many, science is the god of this age. Yet, that is what this paper intends to do, that is, to blaspheme the god of science. Science, it will be seen, is not the main revealer of truth. In fact, science is not capable of revealing any truth at all."
--Gary W. Crampton

Charlie J. Ray said...

The Bible is perfectly rational and God is sovereign. The name of Jesus Christ will never die out because God will preserve His church and there will always be a remnant of God's elect on earth until the return of Christ in the last judgment.

Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved. (Romans 9:27 NKJ)
Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (Romans 11:5 NKJ)
that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?" 39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: (John 12:38-39 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

The comments on this thread are permanently closed.

Charlie J. Ray said...

and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. (1 Peter 2:8 NKJ)
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (Romans 9:22 NKJ)
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged." 5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, "Let us do evil that good may come "?-- as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just. (Romans 3:4-8 NKJ)

Charlie J. Ray said...

Comments are permanently closed.

Colleen said...

I heard this story on Dateline NBC about a mother that says her Son was born a girl. I was shocked and actually felt literally sick to my stomach that a mother would do this to her son. I would bet all the money in the world that, that poor child has been sexually abused or the mother has made him actually think he is a girl. It is a sad world we live in I never new this was going on in society it is so disturbing I still cannot believe it. Sad Sad and Sad feel very sorry for that poor boy he is being ruined all because his mother is sick in the head.

Charlie J. Ray said...

Traditional values are under attack on every side, Miss Colleen. Thanks for commenting. The final word on the matter is God's Word. No government on the earth has the authority to contradict the Holy Scriptures.

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