-------- Original Message --------
| Subject: | [Reasonable Christian] New comment on The Transgender Myth. |
|---|---|
| Date: | Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:50:13 +0000 |
| From: | Debbie A <noreply-comment@blogger.com> |
| To: | cranmer1959 @ hotmail DOT com |
Dear Charlie,
Thank you for publishing my earlier comment and link to GIRES. I would like to pick up on your reply: "Science cannot change your chromosomes from male to female or female to male." It is true that science cannot change chromosomes, but chromosomes do not determine your gender. Rather, they trigger chemicals during fetal development. Usually XY chromosomes result in both the brain and the body being masculinized. But sometimes this does not happen. Occasionally the brain is left female (in the case of the MTF transsexual); occasionally both the body and the brain are left female (in the case of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome: see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome). Nobody - in the church or elsewhere - doubts that AIS women are women. So why the issue with transsexuals?
Debbie
Here is my response:
I don't know what church you belong to, so I won't speculate about what your church believes. The issue is whether or not Scripture is [the] inerrant, verbally inspired Word of God. The Bible IS the Word of God. Knowledge of the Creator AND all other branches of knowledge are only possible through divine and special revelation in Scripture and in Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:1-3; 2 Peter 1:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Timothy 6:20; Colossians 2:8). That would include science, history, and philosophy. History is an approximation at best and political propaganda at worst. The victors get to write their own popular history.
Philosophy is likewise a dead end. Philosophy ends up eventually in agnosticism, atheism, and skepticism. Philosophy does not make knowledge possible at all.
Science is continually correcting errors. That in itself shows that science is not some infallible, inerrant reporting of reality. Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions established that scientific peer authority functions on a sociological and philosophical level much like the Roman Catholic magisterium, "The truth is what we say it is." Unfortunately, science is continually proving itself wrong and even when it is corrected the correction is wrong! Einstein's theory of general relativity turned out to be wrong and was replaced by Heisenberg's theory of probability and quantum mechanics among other "theories".
I said all that to arrive at this. Basically, you are reading metaphysical philosophy back into basic genetic and biological factors, something that is irrational and flatly unscientific since science limits itself strictly to empirical evidences which can be reproduced in a laboratory. First off, my point stands that science cannot reproduce male or female. So it fails. Science and medical technology can "mask" biological physics but it cannot replicate them whatsoever. Your contention that a female "mind" exists in a male body is purely a philosophical assertion which has nothing to do with "science" at all. Thus your entire argument is a non sequitur and is not empirically demonstrable by any stretch of the scientific method. If you know someone who can replicate a soul in a test tube, let me know. How can science explain the human soul? The minute you start asserting that the soul has materialistic causes you have made a huge philosophical leap into metaphysics, not pure empirical science. Not only that but you have denied that there is a God since only the God revealed in Holy Scripture can explain the existence of the universe or spiritual realities like the human soul.
Therefore, when you make assertions like the one above, you are merely making a religious claim, not a scientific claim. If and when science creates a sentient being in robotics get back to me. When science can explain the metaphyics of the soul, get back to me. Cartesian philosophy said, "I think therefore I am." That's basically your argument. You "think" your body and your mind are in cognitive dissonance regarding your gender preference but gender is a physical reality, not a projection of the mind. If your mind is in dissonance with your body, it is a psychological, philosophical, and metaphysical issue, not something that can be proved by pure empirical science.
I hope this helps you understand why I think your argument is purely politically correct propaganda masquerading under the disguise of "so-called science."
Addendum from Wikipedia, Philosophy of Mind:
I don't know what church you belong to, so I won't speculate about what your church believes. The issue is whether or not Scripture is [the] inerrant, verbally inspired Word of God. The Bible IS the Word of God. Knowledge of the Creator AND all other branches of knowledge are only possible through divine and special revelation in Scripture and in Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 1:1-3; 2 Peter 1:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Timothy 6:20; Colossians 2:8). That would include science, history, and philosophy. History is an approximation at best and political propaganda at worst. The victors get to write their own popular history.
Philosophy is likewise a dead end. Philosophy ends up eventually in agnosticism, atheism, and skepticism. Philosophy does not make knowledge possible at all.
Science is continually correcting errors. That in itself shows that science is not some infallible, inerrant reporting of reality. Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions established that scientific peer authority functions on a sociological and philosophical level much like the Roman Catholic magisterium, "The truth is what we say it is." Unfortunately, science is continually proving itself wrong and even when it is corrected the correction is wrong! Einstein's theory of general relativity turned out to be wrong and was replaced by Heisenberg's theory of probability and quantum mechanics among other "theories".
I said all that to arrive at this. Basically, you are reading metaphysical philosophy back into basic genetic and biological factors, something that is irrational and flatly unscientific since science limits itself strictly to empirical evidences which can be reproduced in a laboratory. First off, my point stands that science cannot reproduce male or female. So it fails. Science and medical technology can "mask" biological physics but it cannot replicate them whatsoever. Your contention that a female "mind" exists in a male body is purely a philosophical assertion which has nothing to do with "science" at all. Thus your entire argument is a non sequitur and is not empirically demonstrable by any stretch of the scientific method. If you know someone who can replicate a soul in a test tube, let me know. How can science explain the human soul? The minute you start asserting that the soul has materialistic causes you have made a huge philosophical leap into metaphysics, not pure empirical science. Not only that but you have denied that there is a God since only the God revealed in Holy Scripture can explain the existence of the universe or spiritual realities like the human soul.
Therefore, when you make assertions like the one above, you are merely making a religious claim, not a scientific claim. If and when science creates a sentient being in robotics get back to me. When science can explain the metaphyics of the soul, get back to me. Cartesian philosophy said, "I think therefore I am." That's basically your argument. You "think" your body and your mind are in cognitive dissonance regarding your gender preference but gender is a physical reality, not a projection of the mind. If your mind is in dissonance with your body, it is a psychological, philosophical, and metaphysical issue, not something that can be proved by pure empirical science.
I hope this helps you understand why I think your argument is purely politically correct propaganda masquerading under the disguise of "so-called science."
Addendum from Wikipedia, Philosophy of Mind:
Most modern philosophers of mind adopt either a reductive or non-reductive physicalist position, maintaining in their different ways that the mind is not something separate from the body.[11] These approaches have been particularly influential in the sciences, especially in the fields of sociobiology, computer science, evolutionary psychology and the various neurosciences.[12][13][14][15] Other philosophers, however, adopt a non-physicalist position which challenges the notion that the mind is a purely physical construct. Reductive physicalists assert that all mental states and properties will eventually be explained by scientific accounts of physiological processes and states.[16][17][18] Non-reductive physicalists argue that although the brain is all there is to the mind, the predicates and vocabulary used in mental descriptions and explanations are indispensable, and cannot be reduced to the language and lower-level explanations of physical science.[19][20] Continued neuroscientific progress has helped to clarify some of these issues. However, they are far from having been resolved, and modern philosophers of mind continue to ask how the subjective qualities and the intentionality (aboutness) of mental states and properties can be explained in naturalistic terms.[21][22]
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5 comments:
Sometimes I wonder how people determine gender? sometimes it easy as saying it's a male or female..but sometime, i think, it really need some wisdom to say it. intersexes, transgender persons..make it all not easy huh?
But I believe, it's easy for God to tell coz He's the one who knows them since they were in their mother's womb.
For some "special people" their gender identity cannot simply said by their genital..external or internal, or by their chromosomes.
there are XY females..female who have XY chromosome, either by man or inborn. The same way that there are XX male..by the work of man or inborn. and what amazed me is..that there are XY female who's fertile and can give birth..and her condition is inborn.
I read an article in one clinic here my country about their chromosome test lab. They said they save a man from same sex married. the story is about a man with his wife who married for 5 years but didn't have child yet. so they consulted their Obstetricians and Gynecologists. and after ultrasound this couple were suggested to have chromosome check. It's clearly that the wife is not aware of her condition, coz if so..why go to to doctor?
So what do you think..should the husband divorced her for now he knows that his wife is genetically male tho the genital is female? Or should the wife should consider assigment surgery to male and live as the gene told so? how can this person who have XY cromosome get the feeling and sex identity as a female? socially construct? no..it's because her external genital tell so and fortunately her psychological goes along with it. How if this XY female feel the opposite..she felt like she must be a man when all she can see is female genitalia? at today technology it possible to know what's wrong with her..but 70 years ago..maybe people would have the same opinion like you and judge her the way you do.
I agree not all persons who felt like the opposite sex are born that way, but sometime they may.
just like you said..science is revolving. what 100 years old science says true could be wrong in the next 100 years..who knows?
as people of faith..prayer does have answer to understand people's problem to "save them"..prayer is powerful..but sometimes..many people who said so, forget to pray. or, if they do pray for God guidance and wisdom to solve someone's problem, many of them too occupied to the person's problem and forgot to pray for them selves, for the wisdom and guidance and light come to both parties. We need to ask for "the way out" from God..every person may have different way out. so let God leads, do not determine what God's way without praying. just like when we say "All things are possible with God" we do mean it right? just dont set in mind what's possible and what's not.
maybe we can learn something from this story of Adam and Eve
<"And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” " gen2:16>
< “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” gen3:4-5>
Guess satan was telling the truth that we will be "like God" once we eat from the tree of knowledge.Too occupied to what is good and what is evil to act and sometime put "love and compassion" left behind. people's judgment usually base on their knowledge of good and evil isn't it? we forget that we're not God..we judge by sight and 'our wisdom and knowledge' but God judge by what's in our heart..for He knows the person personally. TRUTH is only HIS, all we need to do is ASK for HIS wisdom so the truth of a person revealed.
at last..excuse my english..it's a foreign language for me..:D
God in Jesus bless you!!
John
John, your irrationalism is appalling. Do you really expect everyone to buy your redefinition of gender to justify your perversion? The Bible does not just talk about the "love" of God. (John 3:16). Scripture also describes His wrath (John 3:36). Those who call good evil and evil good are not only confused but have hardened hearts.
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20 ESV)
The only "special" people are those who think they are exceptions to God's moral law. They might be in for a surprise on Judgment Day.
Self-righteousness is not going to work. Either you have the righteousness by faith and of Christ, you stand in your own self-righteousness.
I would also suggest getting your own blog where you can freely express your heretical views. I'm under no obligation to post anything here:)
May God grant you the grace to believe His Gospel....
you really don't want to comment anything about the fact of nature in gender and sexuality do you? the facts of xy females and xx males, xy mother giving birth, and it's all by nature, so you can see that gender identity sometimes don't always go into the same directions as the gene. How we as christian should act regarding this facts?
And you obviously don't understand the difference between empirical science and psychology or philosophy. Simply because you can note aberrant genetic codes here and there does not necessitate that you have somehow explained the mind/body problem in philosophy or the problem empirical science has in explaining how consciousness arises from a biological lump of gray matter with a few synapses firing. By the way, how many cylinders is your brain firing on?
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